Which is more durable? OB or WB poly?

[Art Mann]

I know a good quality oil based polyurethane varnish is a good durable finish. I eat at a restaurant where the table tops were finished with it a couple of years ago and they still look pretty good, considering the heavy usage. I have no such knowledge of water based varnishes. Before I staked my reputation on a material with which I have no experience, I would definitely obtain sample material and do extensive testing. One thing I can tell you is that restaurant tables need a high build finish and wipe on material, water or oil based, is not the best way to achieve it.

[Scott Holmes]

Michael, I too was laid off from AT&T after 31+ years. I too, am MUCH happier now. Buying the local Bowling alley next week...

If you can get a commercial account to Sherwin Williams and have a SW Chemical Coating store near you I suggest you use Sher-Wood Kem Aqua Plus Clear water reducible thisis NOT the stuff you can get from the paint stores by almost the same name. It has been a "Chemical coatings" only finish but you may be able to get it at the paint stores now. . 1 gallon is the smallest size container; it used to be 5's and 55's only. They will ship it to your door.

This is the stuff I found when doing repair jobs for Olive Garden restaurants in the Houston area. Amazing stuff, UV inhibitors, 30 min recoat (ideal conditions), 2 days you can buff it out and it is KCMA certified. Worth the money; oh yeah, it's $$$$. I'll put it up against the oil-based varnishes; and it will blow away the OTC polys - oil or water borne.

[Michael Dunn]

I'll be sure to check that out. I just set up a pro account at SW the week before last week.

Thanx for the tips!

[Stew Hagerty]

I'm curious... Is there a specific reason that you are set on using a gel stain? A water based stain can be topcoated within hours; a dye in even less time.

"The thing is I'm going to use and oil based gel stain. If I use a WB poly then I have to wait like 72 hours, right?"
You can apply a coat of shellac as soon as the recommended dry time of the stain is up. Shellac dries very fast and is both the universal topcoat & universal undercoat. So it will be perfectly fine over your gel stain, and perfectly fine under a WB topcoat(s).

As for the Gel Topcoat; if you want a oil based wipe-on finish, that one tops my list. I used it on the sliding trays in a chest I made for my daughter. It lays out great, and looks great too.

[Michael Dunn]

I wouldn't really say I'm 'set' on it. I've used it in the past with great results. I'm open to anything really. I have gel stain in stock. Thats a factor. I showed the three colors I have in stock to the client and they picked the GF Gel Brown Mahogany. It has also came recommended to me by TWW in one of his podcasts a while back.

[Stew Hagerty]

Without a doubt, my recommendation for a WB topcoat is GF's Enduro Conversion Varnish.

From their website:



Conversion Varnish is the latest addition to our professional water based product line. It is a two component post catalyzed urethane topcoat suitable for bar tops and commercial applications where ultimate durability is necessary. General Finishes Conversion Varnish has a 6-8 hour pot life once catalyzed and can be re-coated in 1-2 hours.

[Michael Dunn]

That's exactly what I ordered. Time to dust of the HVLP gun.

[Scott Holmes]

CLEAN your gun after EVERY spray session. Don't let it stay in your gun for the time between the recoats. HVLP are warm air and this stuff will setup in the gun.

[Glenn Ancona]

Michael

Did you end up using the sherwin Williams or the General Finishes - and how did it go ? I have a large pine table to finish and wasn't thinking the WB finish was going to hold up as well as the oil based. I think Scott's Olive Garden tables will see more abuse than the one we are working on.

[Michael Dunn]

Michael

Did you end up using the sherwin Williams or the General Finishes - and how did it go ? I have a large pine table to finish and wasn't thinking the WB finish was going to hold up as well as the oil based. I think Scott's Olive Garden tables will see more abuse than the one we are working on.

I ended up using the GF Enduro Pre-Cat Conversion Varnish. The client was ecstatic about the look, feel, and finish. They had professional photos taken the day after installation. I'll upload some pics once I receive them.

[Stew Hagerty]

I ended up using the GF Enduro Pre-Cat Conversion Varnish. The client was ecstatic about the look, feel, and finish. They had professional photos taken the day after installation. I'll upload some pics once I receive them.

I love the feeling when I hand over something I've made and the response is like that. Can't wait for the photos...

[Michael Dunn]

I love the feeling when I hand over something I've made and the response is like that. Can't wait for the photos...

Same here man... This was his exact repsonse... "OMG, those are (expletive) beautiful!!!"

He also had me come back for a couple small jobs. Here's a pic of one. The place doubles as an art gallery so they wanted this nice frame mounted above the doorway. I didn't make the frame. I only hung it.

[Glenn Ancona]

Michael and Stew - Thanks the great tip ! Ordered a gallon of each in satin and semi from G.F direct this morning. Going to shoot some samples later in the week for the client. GF said it goes on just like the enduro poly with a bullet proof finish. SAW EET.

[Doug Richardson]

That investment in R&D has come as a result of stiffer regulations which will eventually lead to no more oil-based products. Water-based products were quite a bit behind in terms of chemical and scratch resistance, and manufacturers needed to invest to catch-up the waterborne lines to the oil-based lines.

I do agree that Varathane is a terrific waster-based finish (and economical). And it is certainly far more water and chemical resistant than early water-based finishes like Polycrylic.

But the application here is a pretty harsh environment. How often will something wet be sitting on these tables, and for how long? How often will they be wiped-down each night, and what else (besides water) might be on the cloth doing the wiping?

I'd be very concerned, if I was the OP, that any finish hold-up and look new for at least several months, otherwise the customer will likely consider the project a failure.

Have to agree with Phil. After working over 30 years in an industrial finishing plant, I can assure you the the move to water based products has nothing to do with quality or durability, it has to do with three letters.... EPA.

Not to say that water based products have not improved over the years, but oil based products still have a clear advantage.....

[Prashun Patel]

The move to waterbased products is not a flight to safer products, it's a flight away from perceived dangerous products to products that aren't yet perceived as dangerous. We deal with this in my business. Manufacturers like me are constantly looking for something that is not yet banned.