Track Saws and Rails

[Mike Cutler]

Thanks Matt. I noticed the rubber grips seem to hold pretty well. I'm guessing as long as I don't apply side-to-side pressure, the rails should stay put.

I think you'll be fine Julie. Let the saw do the work and keep the debris to a min, you've really got to put some side pressure to move the rails. It's actually easier to move the rails on shorter pieces of material, due to less overall total surface tension, or adhesion, whichever is the correct terminology.
I think you're really going to like the overall setup.

[Sam Murdoch]

You probably don't need the clamps at all unless its really slick material. I don't even always use them on prefinished maple.

Whereas I on the other hand use them unless I absolutely can't. Just me, but it take so little time to clamp compared to ruining a piece of valuable material. Just have the hose get hooked once or find that you need to reposition as you are running a long wide rip and the benefits of the clamps become obvious.

[David Weaver]

I also don't use clamps, but I do my work on the floor. My left hand is literally on the track when I start a cut, and when I move the track between cuts, I brush off the dust from the rubber bumper under the track.

[Julie Moriarty]

I did a few cuts on birch veneer MDF cored 3/4" plywood. At first I was NOT happy! There was a lot of dust being spit out up front. I have it hooked up to a CT26 with a 36mm hose so I was surprised to see all the dust. But I had the vac turned down because I had been sanding. So I turned it up all the way. The second cut was a bit better but still not what I was expecting. Then I went back to the manual to refresh my memory. (I had read it, I just didn't retain it all.) I realized I hadn't set the splinter guard down to the plywood. The next cut collected almost all the dust.

I noticed the blade that comes with the TS55 doesn't cut as cleanly as the Freud LU79R I use on my table saw. Does anyone use non-Festool blades with their TS? If so, does it make any difference?

[michael flay]

Cost. The TS 55 comes with a 55" rail that's good for shorter cuts, so I'd want that for sure. The additional 55" guide rail is $115. The 106" guide rail is $295. Plus, storage and handling of the 106" rail...??? Having the additional 55" is cheaper and makes storage and handling easier.

I joined the two rails yesterday, placed the saw & rails on the sheet I'll be cutting and immediately realized I can't use the Festool rail clamps. The table I'm cutting on is longer than the sheet I'm cutting. Hopefully some squeeze clamps and the rubber grips on the rails will do the trick. I'll make it work.

All I did was glue a 4x8 sheet of 1" Styrofoam to a 4x8 sheet of OSB with a 2x4 base and store it against a wall and when needed it sets up on two fold away sawhorses and found that this works great for doing any cutting.

[Jamie Buxton]

..I noticed the blade that comes with the TS55 doesn't cut as cleanly as the Freud LU79R I use on my table saw. Does anyone use non-Festool blades with their TS? If so, does it make any difference?..

Which blade is now coming with the TS55? Festool makes a whole range of blades for the saw -- a veneer/laminates blade, a general-purpose blade, some rip blades, etc. A veneer blade is probably what you want. It has lots of teeth (48?), and a negative hook angle.

BTW, the Festool veneer/laminates blade does a good job on the task it is designed for, but doesn't do a good job on tasks like ripping solid lumber (that negative hook...). If you're going to work in solid lumber, a general-purpose blade or a rip blade would be a good acquisition.

I now have a Freud veneer/laminates blade for my TS55. As far as I can tell, it cuts the same as the Festool veneer/laminates blade I had before it.

[Will Blick]

Rick, your #84 post....

When the trainers re-did their procedures, they added the need to put a gap between the rails. I disagree with that need, but it is not worth expending my connections to Festool management to get that pulled from training. It doesn't hurt (maybe), but it is not necessary either, and you will not find it described in my manuals. (One poster in this thread commented on it, or I wouldn't have even brought it up.) Actually, in hindsight, maybe that was the reason that poster was having problems. I don't condone the gap, and quite possibly it is the reason why the poster commented on having his rails get knocked out of true with usage. If that is the case, then I will kick it up to management to get it removed from the curriculum.

Then u write in YOUR supplemental manual for REQ.....

Do not assume that butting the two rail ends
together will result in a straight line for their entire
length. A very tiny error in the butted joint can
result in a significant error across the length of the
joined rails. A long straightedge is the recommended
method for aligning the rails.


Ok, I am trying to reconcile your two positions....

You state above, NO gap between the rails.... but you suggest using a straight edge to assure straightness of the rails. I think we ALL agree the rail to straight-edge flushness takes precedent over everything. So for us unlucky rail owners, who use a straight edge and have small gaps in the butt joint....what gives? U can't have it both ways, unless all rail ends are perfect 90's. And if the rail ends were perfect 90's, why use a straight edge at all??? It's your words in the manual that suggest, don't assume a flush butt joint will produce a straight cut.

Would like to understand which position you're aligned with today?

[Tom Ewell]

Just a note about the Betterley that just came in.

It's a beefy hunk of machined 1/2" aluminum (milled to 15/32), weighs a tad more than a FS800, fit and finish is excellent.

Connected my three tracks (two 55's and 32), used both sides my long Stabila door jamber to verify up and down the entire run, spot on. (assuming that the Stabila is reasonably true)

While it is capable of supporting the joint by itself but I wouldn't recommend this, the UHMW plastic protectors makes it a little too slippery to hang on beyond its designed use (no damage done )

It does store in my track case (old style Festool tote bag), just snugged it to my 800 and slid it into the short pouch, just fits.


Shipping was a little up there at $16.51, packaging is excellent, the unit is encased in formed styro and custom cardboard.

Total tally is at $115.51 shipped to So. MD.

Value is up to each, too many times I need to join the tracks on a couple of 2x4's straddling saw horses, this thing will ease the pain of initial alignment for me.

[Rick Christopherson]

Ok, I am trying to reconcile your two positions....

I don't have two positions, and I have never altered my stance. You're confusing the difference between deliberately adding a gap between the rails versus a possible gap resulting from the ends not being square. One of the previous posters in this thread commented about deliberately adding a gap between the rails so they are not touching at all. I believe this is what the trainers were presenting in class and videos. I disagree with that. The rails should be brought together tightly, and the straightedge dictates whether a gap (triangular gap) exists or not.

You should never assume that the rail ends are perfectly square. Using a straightedge is the best method for aligning the rails. Some users were just butting the ends together without ever checking the alignment with a straightedge. Even if the ends of the rails were perfect, the longer the rail, the less the butt joint could be trusted. The potential error is the ratio between the length and width (L/W). So for a 55" rail, any error in the butt joint is amplified 8-times (55/7) at the end of the rail. So even getting a piece of sawdust between the rails could result in a non-straight joining if you don't use a straightedge.

[Will Blick]

David, nice play on words... good laugh. Yes, I don't get it either...or maybe I do :-)

Rick, understood...but you also mentioned in this thread, how Julie (and others like me) are addressing a problem that does not exist.... i.e. joining rails STRAIGHT and keeping them aligned when being moved around after being joined. If there is a gap between the rails, they are vulnerable to mis alignment when being moved around. You seem to resist this obvious issue. Its OK to be GREEN...but at the same time, I think its fair for some of us to suggest Festool has a GREAT product, but not a PERFECT product...that is what this comes down to.... IMO, a case of brand loyalist gone wild :-)

[Julie Moriarty]

Regarding knocking a set of rails out of alignment during use, that was pertaining to the Betterly device because it doesn't stay on the rails during actual usage. If you are going to put that device back on the rail every time you pick it up, then you may as well just grab a straightedge and check it. In my opinion, that device is just an expensive gimmick. In order for that device to do any good, you still have to carry it with you. So what difference does it make whether you carry a $100 special straightedge versus carrying a $20 level?

The same argument could be made regarding Festool's guide rail angle unit.

From Festool's website

• Quickly and accurately set angles for cutting or routing with the Festool FS guide rails
  
• Ideal for making angled or even compound cuts in sheet goods
• Made of aluminum and steel for long life.
• Plastic guides fit easily into the outside guide rail track

Based on the one I now own, you have to use a square to make sure it's 90 degrees. If you want to ensure it is set for any other angle, you need a protractor. You can't rely on the stamped degree marks to be accurate. So this too could be called an expensive gimmick ($88.00) And, just like with the rails, if you move it to repeat an angle cut, you have to re-check the angle because the unit doesn't firmly lock the angle and it can be fairly easily knocked out of position. Also, the plastic guide that fits into the rail track each have a screw in them for creating a snug fit but if you want it snug enough to stay in place, the screwdriver slots in the screws will scrape against the aluminum and score it. This can cause the angle unit to bind. A far better solution would have been to use a rail connector to insert in the slot with screw knobs on top for a secure fit.

I think it's good to know what you're getting into before you buy. As long as accurate information is provided, (hopefully by the manufacturer and/or it's affiliates, but at least by the reviewers and consumers) the prospective buyer can make the right choice for him or her. And then whatever choice they make at least they were able to make it with reliably true information. I've found this is pretty much true for most manufacturers, except Festool. For some reason anytime there's someone out there with legitimate issues with a Festool product, the "protectors of the faith" will swoop in and tell everyone they are wrong. Either that or they will try to discount the issues or attempt to end the discussion. Why?

From what I've seen, the guide rail system and its accessories are the Achilles heel of Festool's claim - Fast Easy Simple TOOL. I haven't found any of those to be true with the rail system. And you can accuracy to that list of missing qualities too.

[Julie Moriarty]

I think it's safe to say anyone who puts in the time & effort, like Rick does with his manuals, to the benefit a for-profit corporation, isn't doing it out of the goodness of their heart. For me, I think since we are all here to help and be helped, honesty is a must and we need to put bias aside. And if we fear reprisal from a corporation we're doing business with, then just stay out of it. I don't know how many uber-wealthy people there are here but I think it's safe to say most of us don't have money to burn. Nor we want to try out one product after another in order to find out the truth about that product. So we rely on open and honest discussion with fellow woodworkers.

I think Festool sanders and dust collectors are excellent and would recommend them to anyone who wants a quality sander or dust collector that does what it's supposed to while making the job easier. I can't speak to the TS 55 yet because I don't have much time with it. But I will say the dust collection, when used with the Festool CT 26, is impressive.

Even with as highly as I rate those products, I can't say the same for their track system. I'm an electrician, not an engineer, but it took me about 2 minutes to find a Fast, Easy and Simple way to secure the angle unit to the guide rail, for minimal cost. I'm sure someone at Festool already thought of that but it, or some better idea than the plastic nubs they have, is not incorporated into their angle unit. They could also do one last cut to square the ends of their rails before they go into the box. But they don't do that either. And that is where I give Festool no quarter because they price their products very high and that's where my expectations go when I'm paying that much. But until a majority of Festool customers demand a better product, it appears we won't get it. They would rather create a video telling you to "verify connection with a straight edge", a 3rd party accessory , and make you do the work.

[Will Blick]

> They could also do one last cut to square the ends of their rails before they go into the box. But they don't do that either.

Such a simple suggestion.... I have always been curious about the same. Let me know if you ever get an answer to this question :-) Heck, there might be a logical reason why the butt ends are not all square.... just can't find out. I would be curious if the Makita rails are all cut square? Even if they were square Julie, maybe a mix of heat and flexing might throw the square off a small amount. So it could be an unattainable goal, at least when the metal is so thin.

[David Weaver]

> They could also do one last cut to square the ends of their rails before they go into the box. But they don't do that either.

Such a simple suggestion.... I have always been curious about the same. Let me know if you ever get an answer to this question :-) Heck, there might be a logical reason why the butt ends are not all square.... just can't find out. I would be curious if the Makita rails are all cut square? Even if they were square Julie, maybe a mix of heat and flexing might throw the square off a small amount. So it could be an unattainable goal, at least when the metal is so thin.

The makita rails are cleanly cut on the ends, just went and looked at mine. How precise they're cut, I don't know. I never thought about it before this thread, because I usually don't hang out up here at all, but I use a 48" starrett edge to check the rails as I tighten them. Even if they are square, a couple of drops or something, or carelessness, and they'll be out of square since they're just aluminum.

That said, my two makita rails are pretty much on the mark when I put them together, though even as they are, I will always check with the starrett edge as it's always at hand in the shop for something or other. If I didn't have it, I'd find an acceptable substitute even if it was a quartersawn board that I had match planed to make sure it was dead nuts. Life's just easier with precision when you're using hand tools - it's in your hands and your brain, and not subject to dropping or poor manufacturing.

[John Bailey]

I would remind everyone to stay on topic. The best philosophy is to "not offend" and also, "not be offended."

This has been an informative thread. We'd rather not shut it down. However, if those who cannot stay away from personalizing the thread keep up the negative posts, we'll have to shut it down.

Thanks for your understanding,

John