Need a Mortise Chisel

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks David, I'll check it. Is the heating something I could do now?

[Stew Hagerty]

I have the Narex (Imperial) Mortise Chisels and have found them quite good. They function every bit as well as my needs require. I might also add that I use Narex as my standard bench chisels as well. I can pound, beat, and pry all I want without a single care in the world. That said, I do have my "good set" (Veritas - I got them long before the PM's came out) that I use for finer work and for paring.

While at Handworks in Amana, I got the opportunity to test drive or, more accurately, test pound the English style "Pig Stickers" by Ray Iles at the T4WW booth. I really liked the way the fit my hand, and the balance was better than the Narex. Plus, with their D2 steel I'm pretty sure they would hold an edge much longer than do my Narex.

Personally, I don't chop enough mortises right now to justify the cost of upgrading. But, if I ever do find myself doing more chopping, or with more cash on hand, I think the T4WW/Ray Iles chisels are the ones I would choose.

[Wilbur Pan]

That looks good. It will only get you into trouble if the hoop is loose (trouble meaning the chance that it slides around and pinches skin). I haven't seen wilburs tutorial, so I don't know if it includes heating the hoop or not, but I always heat the hoop so that it cools and contracts tightly on the chisel and doesn't move around.

I only say that because it looks like it's applied a little bit diagonally in that last picture.

For future reference: http://giantcypress.net/tagged/Japan...20setup/chrono

I don't heat up the hoop. If the hoop works loose over time, it's probably because the wood in the handle has shrunk over time, which will happen whether you heat the hoop or not. I think that a vigorous hammering of the end of the handle to compress the fibers before setting the hoop is at least as good a method of locking the hoop in place.

If the hoop gets loose over time, you can pare off the mushroom, pop the hoop off, and seat the hoop down a bit further on the handle, and re-mushroom the end of the handle. You'll lose a bit of length, but it's going to be on the order of less than 1/4", more likely about 1/8".

Tony, your mushrooming job looks pretty good to me overall. There's a small gap between the mushroom and the hoop, but if you hammer the chisel enough, that should go away over time. As long as the hoop isn't loose, it's all good.

[David Weaver]

The first set of chisels I did (ebony handled chisels that I got from somewhere...ebay maybe), I didn't heat the hoops. Since then, I much prefer it, it makes the hoop very tight without having to be fiddly about cutting the wood. To each their own.

It would've been very helpful to have done it on those ebony handled chisels since they were already acclimated to a climate more dry than my shop and the fit would've stayed super tight. There are probably a couple of loose ones in that batch by now (I gave them to a friend, they were some kind of weird mix of expensive handles attached to mediocre export-only chisels deeply stamped "made in japan" right on the tops).

Stan covington has an expert instructional of top shelf preparation of chisels that it would be nice to see published. It would be troll bait, though, for all of the japanophobes, which is too bad. It is far better than any fitting advice I have ever seen anywhere.

Wilbur, I saw your question on another forum that I can't post on about getting the handles off. I don't know if it ever got answered, but the easy answer is just to take the chisels and hit the handles on a board or bench top as if you're using the chisels to do a rimshot with a drumstick. Or any drumming, I guess, as long as the wood isn't gobs harder than the handle wood. They'll work loose pretty quickly.

[Chris Vandiver]

The first set of chisels I did (ebony handled chisels that I got from somewhere...ebay maybe), I didn't heat the hoops. Since then, I much prefer it, it makes the hoop very tight without having to be fiddly about cutting the wood. To each their own.

It would've been very helpful to have done it on those ebony handled chisels since they were already acclimated to a climate more dry than my shop and the fit would've stayed super tight. There are probably a couple of loose ones in that batch by now (I gave them to a friend, they were some kind of weird mix of expensive handles attached to mediocre export-only chisels deeply stamped "made in japan" right on the tops).

Stan covington has an expert instructional of top shelf preparation of chisels that it would be nice to see published. It would be troll bait, though, for all of the japanophobes, which is too bad. It is far better than any fitting advice I have ever seen anywhere.

Wilbur, I saw your question on another forum that I can't post on about getting the handles off. I don't know if it ever got answered, but the easy answer is just to take the chisels and hit the handles on a board or bench top as if you're using the chisels to do a rimshot. They'll work loose pretty quickly.

The way I was taught to fit the hoops on a Japanese chisel is to heat the hoop(400 deg. oven)and also to remove the handle from the chisel and warm it in a toaster oven(or over a wood stove, etc.)to remove any ambient moisture. Then the handle end is compressed(with a hammer)and the hoop fitted and driven down onto the handle. After the hoop has cooled the handle end is mushroomed over. I don't soak the handles in any liquid(water or oil). This defeats the purpose and ends up shrinking back over time. Plus, mushrooming the end of a soaked handle tears the wood fibers and leaves a fuzzy and weak surface. Not ideal. The goal is to have a tight fitting hoop that never comes loose. A loose fitting hoop is a pain in the arse.

By the way, a similar technique is used to fit a Japanese hammer head to a handle. Then there is no need for any wedges or mushrooming the end of the handle, to keep the head in place.

[David Weaver]

I should clarify what I said above, I much prefer "it" meaning I much prefer heating the hoops. The extra tightness specifically does avoid loosening of a handle due to slight changes in moisture.

I will admit that I have chiseled material away on some handles (little bits, of course) when the hoops are very tight.

There are so many decent chisels now with set hoops,though, that nobody has to worry about it if they don't want to, I guess.

I have to admit that when I get the oddball inexpensive chisel here or there, I don't mind the job the hoop setting machines do.

[Wilbur Pan]

The first set of chisels I did (ebony handled chisels that I got from somewhere...ebay maybe), I didn't heat the hoops. Since then, I much prefer it, it makes the hoop very tight without having to be fiddly about cutting the wood. To each their own.

It would've been very helpful to have done it on those ebony handled chisels since they were already acclimated to a climate more dry than my shop and the fit would've stayed super tight. There are probably a couple of loose ones in that batch by now (I gave them to a friend, they were some kind of weird mix of expensive handles attached to mediocre export-only chisels deeply stamped "made in japan" right on the tops).

Stan covington has an expert instructional of top shelf preparation of chisels that it would be nice to see published. It would be troll bait, though, for all of the japanophobes, which is too bad. It is far better than any fitting advice I have ever seen anywhere.

Wilbur, I saw your question on another forum that I can't post on about getting the handles off. I don't know if it ever got answered, but the easy answer is just to take the chisels and hit the handles on a board or bench top as if you're using the chisels to do a rimshot with a drumstick. Or any drumming, I guess, as long as the wood isn't gobs harder than the handle wood. They'll work loose pretty quickly.

Thanks for the tip on removing a chisel handle. That's the technique that I know. I was wondering if there were other ways of doing so, much like there seem to be different ways of setting Japanese chisel hoops.

My chisels are close to 5 years old at this point and the hoops are still tight, without signs of working loose. It may be that the oak handles that I have are easier to deal with than ebony handles. Chris' experience aside, I haven't seen the issues that he mentions of problems with the soaking part. As I see it, the soaking mainly accelerates the swelling of the handle back to its more normal state after the hammering.

But as long as the ring stays tight, that's the main thing. And as I mentioned before, should it come loose, it's pretty trivial to redo the process. Maybe if I get another new chisel, I'll try the heating thing. But it's going to be a while before I need a new Japanese chisel.