Good Source for pure Methanol

[Peter Quinn]

This is sort of a wood question. Methanol was originally "wood" alcohol. I need to get some pure methanol as a base for some Lockwood metal complex aniline dyes I'll be using on an upcoming entry way. I'm going for a fumed look, I had considered actually fuming the door (QSWO), but I'm leaning against that. The dyes are water or alcohol soluble, I'd like to use the alcohol to minimize grain raising, they suggest pure methanol as the solvent of choice, none for sale at the local hardware store. I have denatured, but thats not recommended. So where should I be looking? I'm not even sure what types of stores might carry this.

[Jerry Bruette]

I bought some from our local pharmacy once, but understand I live in a small town and we don't have a big box Walgreens or CVS, although they may handle it. The pharmacist made me sign a log book so the purchase was on record.

[Mel Fulks]

Peter,I defer to the real finishers .But my understanding is that the alcohol based stains are usually just used on things that are small. Use water based .Sand , sponge with warm water ,allow to dry ,use new pc of sandpaper to knock off whiskers ,stain. That's the way the best finishers I've known have worked. It's easy to go back over any part that is too light .The guys who are really good get the color exactly right and use no toner.

[Ryan Baker]

Behlen used to have a product called wood alcohol solvent, but I don't know if it still exists. You might find methanol at a pharmacy or a scientific supply.

I am curious about the recommendation to not use denatured. Behkol (basically denatured), denatured alcohol, or frankly even ethanol should do the job just fine. I've never heard a recommendation to use only pure methanol with aniline.

[David L Morse]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...2Ck%3Amethanol

[Jim Falsetti]

Peter, looks like duda diesel dot com has 99.85% pure methanol in almost any quantities up to 55 gallon drums. Jim

[Peter Quinn]

Peter,I defer to the real finishers .But my understanding is that the alcohol based stains are usually just used on things that are small. Use water based .Sand , sponge with warm water ,allow to dry ,use new pc of sandpaper to knock off whiskers ,stain. That's the way the best finishers I've known have worked. It's easy to go back over any part that is too light .The guys who are really good get the color exactly right and use no toner.

I've considered using the water, thats what I've always done in the past. My understanding is the alcohol version must be sprayed, you can't wipe fast enough, but plus side is minimal grain raise, and you can thin the dye considerably to lower the concentration then spray multiple coats to build up to the color you want. Spray it on, leave it on, no wipe down, dries in minutes. With the water its tougher, each coat reactivates the last, if you go over in saturation you have to wet rag it back to weaken it, and you are adding a heck of a lot of water to a piece of millwork I'd rather stayed dry. You have to flood the surface then wipe back to avoid lap marks. I'm thinking alcohol based, sprayed like a toner in multiple thin rises make more intuitive sense to me for this one. Fun with spray gun. I guess I could also spray the water version and leave it to dry.

Not sure why but the Lockwood site itself specifies methanol as best, prefered to denatured. I could use pure ethanol, but that gets taxed at a much higher rate. In collage we mixed that with a sweet fruit colored powder and hot water, called it jellow shots.......never though I'd be spraying the same basic thing on a door. Minus the gelatin.

[Bill Bukovec]

After taking a class from a professional finisher, I don't use methanol due to the toxicity.

Why do you need pure methanol?

[Prashun Patel]

Before you do that, call them and CONFIRM they need you to use methanol. My company uses methanol and I can tell you that everything we've researched about it says it's toxic if ingested or absorbed into the blood. Personally, I wouldn't be spraying it if there are good alternatives. And there are. Are you sure they didnt say ethanol? That's what I would use. The only reason methanol would be used vs ethanol is evaporation; the dye should be soluble in either. If you require faster solvent flashing, then consider mixing ethanol with acetone.

I'm not recommending anything, just advising your options and what *I* would/not do.

[Mel Fulks]

Rather than flood the surface I've seen them darken ,where needed ,with a sponge or cloth avoiding the darkness of a wet edge. They might have diluted some before doing that evening out. Been a long time since I saw it done,but it sure impressed me. Let us know how it turns out.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm taking all the advisements against methanol seriously, seems thats worse to deal with than I had imagined. I'll be spraying this in a tight residential neighborhood, better spare the neighbors the poison. Then I read from several sources that with dyes that are both alcohol and water soluble that the water borne versions are more light fast. That settles that, I have water already, it wont kill the neighborhood cats, better against UV. I've read 25% alcohol helps set the color better, I'm guessing the alcohol absorbs some of the free water? Or maybe its something more complicated than that? Either way it should speed the drying, so it looks like I'll be heading to the local spirit shop........well I may just be there for other reasons at some point anyway, time to get some Graves XXX pure grain, 190 proof, thats about as concentrated a form of ethanol I can buy locally. The dye should be here early next week. Fun with colors!

[John TenEyck]

I use Transtint dyes in DNA a lot. I'm not a poster child for safety, but I'd never use straight methanol. I've never had any trouble applying the dye in DNA by hand. It just doesn't give those lap marks people talk about, at least it doesn't for me and I've colored light woods like maple with some pretty dark colors. Spraying is a great way to apply it too, since you can shoot multiple coats quickly to build to the color you want, adjust light areas, etc., with no wiping required. In any case, I really like using dye in alcohol because it completely avoids the grain raising problem that goes with using water. I know there are ways to minimize it, but eliminating it is a far better option to me, especially on open grained woods like oak. I also know that water soluble only dyes are more light fast than Transtint type dyes, but I suspect that's overblown. The wood itself changes with time, and most finishes age, too, so if the dye fades more or less it probably doesn't have much impact for the pieces I'm building.

John

[Scott Holmes]

To clarify the color fastnees of dyes...

WATER ONLY dyes are more colorfast than water or alcohol dyes. e.g. TransFast is more color fast than TransTint


I too use TransTint dyes in DNA with no problems.

I use both TransFast and TransTint offen.

Grainraising is not really a problem... use a kitchen sponge to apply the water dye and the same sponge wrung out to absorb the excess. Seal the dye with dewaxed shellac and add your first two topcoats... now sand with 280 or 320, any raised grain is gone; much less worry about sanding off the color too.

[Peter Quinn]

This is for an exterior door, so color fast is a serious consideration. It's an eastern exposure to have a generous awning roof, so no direct midday summer sun. It's QSWO, so grain raise can be a problem, and it's getting a penetrating oil finish, reapplied annually. I'd rather re oil every year or two than completely strip cracked varnish every 7. I don't mind if the wood changes color over time actually, it's on a rustic building with craftsman touches, so a little patina will suit it well. I guess I'll try the DNA approach with spray.

[Scott Holmes]

Which oil finish do you plan to use? Most provide little to no protection.