Help me solve a debate over electrical use.

[Chris Padilla]

When the family goes on vacation for 1-4 weeks (usually 2 weeks), I will unplug everything in the shop. Heck, I even turn the water heater down to minimum temperature although I do keep the pilot burning. I even unplug the washer/dryer and open the doors to let 'em air out. Otherwise, I leave everything plugged in while I'm regularly at home.

In the kitchen, I've gotten the family in the habit of keeping tailed accessories (mixer, toaster, waffle iron, blender, etc.) unplugged when not in use. Only the fridge and stove stay plugged in indefinitely. It just feels safer to me to do this in the kitchen. In the shop, I'm the only one in there...my daughter rarely goes in it and she's 11 anyway so doesn't need to push a bunch of button (except on her old man! LOL).

[Jason Roehl]

At home, I generally leave stuff plugged in (computers may be on 24/7), including shop tools. However, when I'm on a jobsite, I unplug anything I leave behind for the night/weekend and generally make things as "safe" as I reasonably can. OCCASIONALLY, I'll leave a battery charger going with a battery on it if I know I'll need it the next day.

[Brian Brightwell]

I went to coffee this morning and was talking to an old gentleman. He said he arrived home last night while we were having a thunderstorm. He said he hurried and ran into the house. He said he came out this morning and the car was still running.

[Steve Baumgartner]

As stated above by others, if there is a switch, when in the "off" position, teh circuit is "open". That means that there is no physical connection between the power source and the equipment past the point of the switch. Equipment that has a "low power mode," such as TV's, computers, and some other electrical stuff, is never fully disconnected unless unplugged. Those things either draw a trickle of current all the time (even when off), or can get "zapped" with a surge in the power supply (lightening strike for instance). It is physically impossible for lightning or power surge to affect equipment which is elctrically isolated from any source of the surge (the stuff that has a true on-off switch in the off position).

Recently, there has been a lot of press about "energy vampires." The household devices and equipment (like the TV, etc., mentioned above) are the "vampires". My wife also thinks everything needs to be unplugged to minimize electrical use. Not true however.

Not quite true. The contacts in many switches are still pretty near to each other when open, and a very strong lightning strike can cause an arc across the gap. Such a surge can kill electronics behind the supposedly open switch. I've actually had this happen to TVs and computers, and have had switches melted in place. If you anticipate a strong lightning storm, it is wise to unplug electronic devices.

As has already been pointed out by several posts, many modern electronic devices do not have a true on/off switch. Instead they go into a standby low-power mode. Any one of them draws a minuscule current when off. But if you have dozens of such "vampires" in your house, the total can actually be significant, like leaving a 100W lightbulb on 24/7.

[Eric DeSilva]

But if you have dozens of such "vampires" in your house, the total can actually be significant, like leaving a 100W lightbulb on 24/7.

100W bulb? Not sure I believe that. But maybe some term definition is in order. Both my computer and my RAID array have a low power mode. I do not view them as "vampire" appliances, however, because I want both to be on nearly instantaneously on demand. The low power they consume in that state is a cost associated with that feature. I can turn them off, but at the cost of substantially increased delay when I want to use them. While I urge people to consider when and how they use devices and whether this trade off is worth it to them in their lives, I don't consider that a "vampire" appliance any more than I consider my water heater a vampire because it keeps water heated instead of heating on demand. The same applies to my CATV box--if I shut it off every night, the "cost" is a five to ten minute delay the next time I want to watch TV as it downloads program information and re-boots. Again, not a vampire appliance in my mind (I wonder how the low power/continual update mode actually compares to the electrical usage required to cold boot and rebuild the guides, which requires a lot a data transfers).

I consider a vampire appliance something that is consuming energy with no purpose--a wall wart charger that is not connected to a device being charged, for example. I might even classify a stove with a clock powered off the mains as a vampire, since I'd happily buy an oven that didn't have that feature if given the opportunity. But the draw of those devices is typically tiny--maybe 100-200 mA. Means you would need hundreds to hit the consumption of a 100W bulb.

[Mike Cruz]

I'm with you, Art.

[ray hampton]

Not quite true. The contacts in many switches are still pretty near to each other when open, and a very strong lightning strike can cause an arc across the gap. Such a surge can kill electronics behind the supposedly open switch. I've actually had this happen to TVs and computers, and have had switches melted in place. If you anticipate a strong lightning storm, it is wise to unplug electronic devices.

As has already been pointed out by several posts, many modern electronic devices do not have a true on/off switch. Instead they go into a standby low-power mode. Any one of them draws a minuscule current when off. But if you have dozens of such "vampires" in your house, the total can actually be significant, like leaving a 100W lightbulb on 24/7.

modern radios /tv and computers sets can not handle static electric, I am lucky enough to have seen the ground charge that proceed a lighting strike to enter a room and go straight to a tv set without any damage to the set, I lost a radio because of a static charge that also came thru. a wall on its way up the hill, unless you see or feel this static charge , you may not know that it came to visit you

[Dan Schrecongost]

One of my friends -- who happens to be a perpetual worry-wart -- is so concerned about safety and electrical use, she unplugs everything when she closes up.

I recall a story by James Thurber in which a old woman ran around plugging things IN to each outlet, convinced she was stopping an expensive and dangerous leak of electricity.

[Steve Baumgartner]

100W bulb?
I consider a vampire appliance something that is consuming energy with no purpose--a wall wart charger that is not connected to a device being charged, for example. I might even classify a stove with a clock powered off the mains as a vampire, since I'd happily buy an oven that didn't have that feature if given the opportunity. But the draw of those devices is typically tiny--maybe 100-200 mA. Means you would need hundreds to hit the consumption of a 100W bulb.

I agree with your subjective notion that something is a "vampire" if it is consuming electricity to no useful purpose. The problem is that unlike you, most people are not aware of how much electricity each device draws at idle and don't consciously make a decision that such energy usage is for a useful purpose. They just innocently assume that "off means off", and leave it plugged in. Also, aside from computers and devices like your TV box that are effectively computers, most modern devices can power up from cold off to full run in at most a second or two. People don't evaluate whether reducing that to below a second is worth the energy consumption.

Um, maybe recheck your math? 100mA at 120V = 12W. More like 8 than hundreds. Even if they are actually 1 or 2W at idle, it can add up. From where I'm sitting right now, I can see 10 devices that are drawing current even though none of them are in active use right now.

[Jason Roehl]

Even if you have 50W of "vampire" draw on 24/7, that's 1.2KWh per day. I pay about $0.10/KWh, so that would be 12 cents per day, or $3.60/month and $45/year. That's a pretty small price for the convenience of not waiting for things to boot (and some electronic devices lose their settings when unplugged--my DVRs would have to re-download program guides, unusable for several minutes, and the guides take 20 minutes to a couple hours to come fully online). I'm sure most of us could save much more than $45/year if we drove even a couple MPH more slowly or went one more day between grass cuttings. Never mind the hassle of plugging/unplugging hard-to-reach cords. I'll conserve elsewhere, thankyouverymuch.

[ray hampton]

Even if you have 50W of "vampire" draw on 24/7, that's 1.2KWh per day. I pay about $0.10/KWh, so that would be 12 cents per day, or $3.60/month and $45/year. That's a pretty small price for the convenience of not waiting for things to boot (and some electronic devices lose their settings when unplugged--my DVRs would have to re-download program guides, unusable for several minutes, and the guides take 20 minutes to a couple hours to come fully online). I'm sure most of us could save much more than $45/year if we drove even a couple MPH more slowly or went one more day between grass cuttings. Never mind the hassle of plugging/unplugging hard-to-reach cords. I'll conserve elsewhere, thankyouverymuch.

I laugh at people that pass other cars to get to the light and then set there while the slow-poke catch up with them,all receptacle should be at about 4 feet from the floor so that pulling the plug are easy for everyone if there are not any children in the house

[Michael Zerance]

A lot of good points. All things considered, I believe it is safest and easiest to just flick the breakers off on the way out the door...that's what I do.

[ray hampton]

A lot of good points. All things considered, I believe it is safest and easiest to just flick the breakers off on the way out the door...that's what I do.

instead of flick the breakers , I would have a knife switch install to turn the power off at one time instead of flick 20 or 30 breakers if the knife switch are legal

[Michael Zerance]

instead of flick the breakers , I would have a knife switch install to turn the power off at one time instead of flick 20 or 30 breakers if the knife switch are legal

I agree that would be ideal but I have to leave one breaker on for the refrigerator and another for the exterior security lights, so a knife switch wouldn't work for me.

[ray hampton]

I agree with your subjective notion that something is a "vampire" if it is consuming electricity to no useful purpose. The problem is that unlike you, most people are not aware of how much electricity each device draws at idle and don't consciously make a decision that such energy usage is for a useful purpose. They just innocently assume that "off means off", and leave it plugged in. Also, aside from computers and devices like your TV box that are effectively computers, most modern devices can power up from cold off to full run in at most a second or two. People don't evaluate whether reducing that to below a second is worth the energy consumption.

Um, maybe recheck your math? 100mA at 120V = 12W. More like 8 than hundreds. Even if they are actually 1 or 2W at idle, it can add up. From where I'm sitting right now, I can see 10 devices that are drawing current even though none of them are in active use right now.

is 100mA equal to 1/10 of a ampere ?
I do not like this metre system