Contributor
Me? I would take a lower offer from an American company, just like my products cost more and have less profit margin than some because I try to source my components responsibly. But whatever. The point of this thread is that we're aware of which companies are doing this so we can choose to avoid their products. The reason they choose the way they do is of no concern to me.Originally Posted by Brian Elfert
[OP]
Administrator
There are other companies that I can support who are local in my State or at least here in America other than Smithfield Foods or one of their subsidiaries. Sorry, I don't agree with the always sell to the highest bidder mindset. At the same time I don't believe that the lowest bidder is always the best choice either.
Someone mentioned the Smithfield pension fund. What happens to that fund if it changes hands and is managed by a foreign company? The employees who have been part of the pension plan probably had an understanding throughout their entire working life with Smithfield Foods that the company would manage their retirement system. A promise that was made should be kept not sold to another entity.
.
Guest
I don't know what will happen to Smithfield's interest in granting additional benefits, but far and away most rank and file individuals in the plan will never lose any of the benefits they've already accrued - unless the entire economy collapses.
The PBGC (pension benefit guaranty corp) generally guarantees those benefits already accrued up to given levels for each retirement age, and the guarantees are more generous for participants who have been receiving their benefits for a while than for someone who hasn't yet started to receive. The current age 65 guarantee (that is, if you start receiving benefits at age 65) is $57,477.24 (it's an indexed number, that's why it's odd). If there are more assets in the plan than the guaranteed level, even in a bankruptcy, those assets would be allocated to pay amounts above those guarantees.
The fund, regardless of ownership, remains the same. A pension fund is pretty much sacred ground to the IRS (IRS rules have it such that the fund can be used solely and only for the benefit of the participants of the plan) and the PBGC (because they guarantee the benefits and don't want to be on the hook for corporate chicanery), nobody screws with them.
As for additional benefits, whether it's smithfield or anyone else, the trend is to stop pension accruals or stop putting new participants into pensions. IF that hasn't happened already, it's probably something that will happen regardless of ownership. The only way to keep a pension plan attractive is to have a reasonably comfortable interest rate environment as well as increasing and stable investment markets. We haven't had either of those for a while now. The stock market returns have a much greater hand in the ability to provide pension benefits than most people would ever dream of.
Last edited by David Weaver; 07-02-2013 at 10:26 AM.
[OP]
Administrator
The issue of the highest profit being an acceptable reason to sell might also apply here at SawMill Creek.
Why after ten years have I never sold our email list? I have been offered a huge amount of money countless times for our email listing and I have refused every offer. Some have offered more than I make in an entire year just for a copy of our list.
I refused because it's the wrong thing to do even though it is in my best interest financially which some would consider a good business decision. Very few of you would ever know that I was profiting from the sale of your information and it is actually a very common practice these days. But, that doesn't make it the right thing to do.
The only answer to this question that matters to me is that I would know that I violated a promise I made here a very long time ago.
.
[OP]
Administrator
David,
Its easy to use pension funds to pay off company debt, ask anyone who worked for the Airline Industry 15 years ago.
.
Guest
Airlines sometimes get special rules in pension funding (literally, in the regulations, a subsection is written below the regulations and applies only to airlines), but fiduciary requirements now don't allow you to just fill your pension with company stock and debt.
The benefits accrued for the smithfield folks are safer than anything else those individuals have, including their 401ks (which they could easily ruin with mismanagement or bad investment timing), their cars or their houses. It wouldn't matter if the company actually took all of the money and ran to mexico with it, the PBGC would pay the benefits and sue the company.
Airlines are sort of a special case because back then, they paid their pilots the moon and the plans themselves had pilots retiring at an early mandated age. The PBGC model doesn't fit that stuff very well.
I don't know what the airline payscale is now, but 10-15 years ago, I recall top of the payscale at united being somewhere in the range of $375,000. Airlines have always abused public money and public trust, and they've been allowed to because there is so much desire for the public to have access to them, but at the same time, the public and the regulators have zero interest in setting up a business model where individuals actually pay the full cost of flying and operating the airlines and airfields.
Member
Wow...that is hard for me to fathom. I really appreciate your integrity, Keith.
I am never wrong.
Well...I thought I was wrong once...but I was mistaken.
Guest
I think if someone offered me my annual income for the email list, I'd ask them if they wanted the whole site, and then I'd set up another called Lumbermill Crick. Only the people in Pittsburgh and rural areas (lifetime pittsburghers talk like rural folks, anyway, having grown up rural myself) would use the word crick, but hey.
I am glad, though, that my email wasn't given out. I get enough woodworking related emails for devices and material of all manners that I'd never buy in the first place.
Member
I don't know about the Chinese being all that slack about food safety. Their inspections may be spotty, like ours are, but when someone uses tainted ingredients or adulterations in China, they get executed. Over here on the other hand, Stewart Parnellm the peanut guys whose peanut butter poisoned all those people five years ago, many of whom died, has yet to set foot in a jail.
What does it mean when you've accumulated enough tools that human life expectancy precludes you from ever getting truly good with all of them?
Contributor
Thank you, Keith. You're a good man, tho sadly have no future as a successful politician.
David
Member
Funny how the Asians buy up American businesses like they are hanging on a hook in the dollar store YET the Chinese populous are dirt poor and almost starving. Pathetic! INMO, American businesses are selling because our government is mismanaging the our economy. Yeah, here comes Obama Care now our businesses can prosper and grow.............
U.S.A.F. Ret. MSgt 2006
Contributor
can you name any nation where the majority of the people are not poor
Member
Yup! Finland, Faroe Islands, Singapore, Sweden, Japan, and by majority...The United States of America.
Choosing Windows 7/8 over Apple OSX and IOS is sort of like choosing Harbor Freight tools over Festool!
“They come from the desert, but it is we who have our heads in the sand.”
― Ben Weingarten
Member
Amen to that.
Paul
Member
yes its true they were supported but in the business world it all makes sense from a capitalist point of view. if its good for the shareholders then it must be ok...profits like this are short term and often managers are only taught to look from one quarter to the next. patriotism is very lacking in most businesses.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
