Just beautiful work. Reminds me of the saying "if you're going to do it, do it right." My gosh!
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Just beautiful work. Reminds me of the saying "if you're going to do it, do it right." My gosh!
[OP]
Contributor
1 of 2 postings
A fair amount of preparation goes into making a packet. Each piece of veneer has to be covered with paper. I use 2" veneer tape. When one side is covered with tape, the veneer tends to curl which makes placing it a bit more difficult. Some veneer, such as the holly and the green, are laid both horizontally and vertically so that I can choose the piece that gives the grain direction along the long axis of the element (a leaf, for example).
When I apply the veneer tape to the veneer, I have to let everything dry for about a day. I press the veneer between two pieces of plywood, but even with that, the veneer curls when I take it out.
Anyway, here's the inside of the packet with all the colors needed (hopefully, I didn't forget any!).
TrayBox126.jpg
The next step is to put pins through the packet so that the veneer does not shift while I'm cutting it. Our ancestors used very small nails, but we can use 23 gauge pins. You want pins that are longer than the thickness of the packet so that you can clinch the pins over. Since I want the pins to extend out the back, I use some foam behind the packet when I shoot the pins.
TrayBox127.jpg
I have to stand the nose of the pinner away from the surface of the packet so I use a piece of wood (here, MDF).
TrayBox128.jpg
As you can see, below, this leaves the pin protruding from the top surface. Although not shown, the pin also protrudes from the back.
TrayBox129.jpg
I clinch the pins over. When I clinch the pin on the back, I try to do it so that the bend is the same direction as the top. If you could see the pin from the side, it would look like the letter U.
TrayBox130.jpg
After I clinch the pins on the back, I put blue tape over the pins so that they won't get hung up while I'm moving the packet around on the scroll saw.
TrayBox131.jpg
This brings up the question: "How many pins should you use, and where should you put them?"
The goal is to make sure the veneer is held in position so you need enough to do that even after you've cut out most of the elements. The pin holes don't show very much, but they can be seen so I try to put them where the remaining veneer is dark, or is burl. The holes don't show up as much that way.
As I cut out the elements, I need to place them so that I can easily find each one. I do this by using a numbered grid, as seen in the following two pictures.
TrayBox132.jpg
TrayBox133.jpg
Continued in next post.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
[OP]
Contributor
2 of 2 postings
To begin the cutting process, I have to thread a scroll saw blade through the packet. I could drill a hole, but perhaps a better approach is to push an awl like device through the packet. The advantage of the awl like device is that it pushes the wood fibers apart and they tend to close up again from the water in the glue.
Even with that, I want to choose an inconspicuous place to make the hole. I usually choose a place where several lines come together.
TrayBox134.jpg
And here's the awl like device being pushed into the packet.
TrayBox135.jpg
I can thread the blade through this hole.
TrayBox136.jpg
Here's the first piece cut out.
TrayBox137.jpg
And placed in the proper position on the grid.
TrayBox138.jpg
A picture after several more elements have been cut out.
TrayBox139.jpg
And placed on the grid.
TrayBox140.jpg
In cutting the elements out, I tend to proceed from one end to the other. In this design, I'll go around the vase - the vase will be the last thing I cut out.
I won't post again until I get everything cut out.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to document and post this. I'm really enjoying the details of the process.
Good Luck, (although you hardly need it!)
Gary
Contributor
It is amazing the amount of work that goes into this process. Very nice work and I also thank you for documenting this process!
[OP]
Contributor
I finished cutting out all the elements. It normally would not take me this long to cut out this many pieces (about 240) but I had other things going that limited how much time I could spend on this project.
Anyway, here are the pieces.
TrayBox141.jpg
And here's the the packet after everything has been cut out.
TrayBox142.jpg
The first step is to open up the packet and retrieve the background veneer. Remember that I had put pins through the packet so I have to remove them. Using a set of nippers, I cut the pins off at the top. Use safety glasses because the cut off pin goes flying when you cut.
TrayBox143.jpg
Then I go to the back side and pull the pins out (sorry, no picture). This is what the packet looks like on opening it up.
TrayBox144.jpg
I remove all the veneer to get to the background, and remove the background from the cardboard.
TrayBox145.jpg
Then I flip it over and put wide blue tape on the back. I use 3" blue tape.
TrayBox146.jpg
TrayBox147.jpg
The blue tape will hold the elements as I start to assemble the marquetry. This next picture shows the background with the vase parts put in. I'll do some sand shading on these pieces but just wanted to show how things fit together.
TrayBox148.jpg
Next up is the sand shading.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
I am thoroughly enjoying this thread Mike, One question, when you laid the veneers to make the packet, I guess you lay the colors approximately where you think they should be? If my thinking is correct, then you end up with the same piece in different colors which allows you to select which one is best when assembling. I have never seen marquetry done before, and looking forward to the rest of the thread.
I am not saying go kill all the stupid people......
I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
Member
Mike,
This is very interesting and well done. I'm looking forward to the next installment.
Gary
[OP]
Contributor
You're generally correct, but let me add a few things.Originally Posted by Trevor Howard
When I put the veneers into the packet, you're correct that I only have to put it where there's an element of that color. But there's some additional considerations:
1. I want the grain to run in a certain direction in the element. For example, it's best if the grain runs along the long axis of a leaf - it looks better and it's easier to work with when sand shading.
2. The piece of veneer must be held exactly in place when cutting out the elements or the piece will not fit. If I just put in small pieces of veneer, I can use less veneer but getting those small pieces positioned exactly right, and making sure that they don't move during the cutting is a problem. I tape the pieces in with blue tape and also use 23 gauge pins to hold the veneer in place. When cutting out the elements, I need to think about the sequence so that I don't cut in a fashion that cuts a piece of veneer loose under another element still to be cut. Also, it's really upsetting to pull a piece out of the cut stack and find out that the end is missing because you didn't position the veneer exactly right. So now, I make sure the veneer is oversize even though it "wastes" some of the veneer.
For things that are common in the design, such as the flower petals and leaves, the veneer I put in generally covers the full design in one piece. Additionally, I put in two layers of that color, one running vertically and the other running horizontally. When I cut the veneer, I get a stack of veneer and then pick the piece I like best. If I screw up the sand shading (maybe burn a piece) I can always fall back to the other piece of the same color, even though the grain is not running the way I'd prefer.
While I'm describing how I do this (marquetry), there's a bunch of additional considerations that I'm not describing - because I don't think of them or I feel it would be too much detail. If you do marquetry, you'll learn them on your own. Or take a class where you do hands on work and your instructor will tell you how to do each step and what to watch our for.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
[OP]
Contributor
Also, let me add that there are different ways of doing marquetry, and each technique has it's advantages and disadvantages. Paul R Miller uses a different technique to do marquetry and perhaps one day he will do a thread that describes his technique.
There are additional techniques beyond the one I do and the one he does, but I suspect these two are the most common.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 09-04-2013 at 1:04 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
[OP]
Contributor
Next is the sand shading. Here's my setup for sand shading - a Coleman gas stove and an old frying pan with about an inch of sand in it.
TrayBox149.jpg
It takes a while to get the sand hot, maybe 15 minutes. I test the temperature by putting a scrap piece of veneer into the sand to see if it will shade, and how fast.
When I first started doing sand shading I used an electric hot plate but it really wouldn't get hot enough so I went to this Coleman stove.
To do the sand shading, I use a set of tongs to hold the veneer while I insert it into the hot sand. For complex parts, I use a spoon to scoop up some of the hot sand and apply it to the veneer where I want to create a shaded effect.
The light colored veneer (such as holly) shades faster than darker veneer.
TrayBox150.jpg
One question you may ask is "How do you know where to put the sand shading?" There's a couple of ways to deal with that question. One way is to mark each element when you draw the design. Paul Schurch recommends putting a series of pencil dots where the shading should be. That way, you can look at the design and know where to shade.
When I'm sand shading, I have a copy of the design (with the numbers on it) on the bench. That way, I can see the number of the next piece I need to work on. I just look at the "picture" and how the piece fits in and I make a decision on where to sand shade at that time.
Here's the work in progress. You're looking at the veneer from the show face and it's all covered with paper tape - so the final colors don't really show up. If you work with the paper tape down, you can see the colors as you work, but then the picture will come out as a mirror image.
TrayBox151.jpg
When you sand shade veneer, the heat drives off the moisture in the veneer and the veneer shrinks. So when you put the pieces together, there will be small gaps between the pieces. You can mitigate that problem by misting the pieces of veneer after sand shading to increase the moisture content. But this can cause it's own problems. If the pieces expand too much, you won't be able to fit them together.
Mostly, I don't re-hydrate the pieces and deal with the gaps. I move the pieces around to keep the gaps about equal. When I glue up the veneer, I use a dark urea formaldehyde glue, which is water based. The water in the glue causes the veneer to expand, and the glue comes up between the pieces, filling any gaps. The effect is that the piece may be outlined by a dark brown line, which I do not find objectionable.
Here's a close up of a rose from my floral coffee table. You can see the elements are outlined by the brown glue. To my mind, that just helps delineate the pieces and makes the design stand out better.
TrayBox154.jpg
Here's a close up of the two flowers done so far. Remember that everything is covered with paper so the actual colors cannot really be seen.
TrayBox152.jpg
TrayBox153.jpg
I'll continue working on the sand shading and will post again after I finish it.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 09-05-2013 at 2:07 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Mike,
Those little tips and observations really add to this thread. I always wondered why someone would use gas as opposed to electric heat for example. Extra layers of the same color with same or different grain orientation is another good tip.
Have you ever been able to use the opposite pices in design to create a contrasting or negative image? hopefully my question makes sense even if it isn't realistic.
The work is coming along great. I agree that glue lines and your care to keep them even really do enhance the effect of separate pieces. Knowing that some gap is OK is really a motivator for a guy like me since it makes your process seem "doable".
Last edited by Gary Muto; 09-05-2013 at 12:25 PM.
Gary
Member
Thanks for the detailed explanation Mike
I am not saying go kill all the stupid people......
I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
[OP]
Contributor
I never tried to make another panel with the left over pieces. One problem is that I tend to do flower designs which include leaves. Today, I only include enough green for one panel but I guess I could add a couple of layers so I'd have extra. The flowers could easily be the color of some of the left over pieces.
But most of the marquetry I do is for some specific final product so I don't generally have a use for another copy.
I have a tray that I did in a water lily design and had a number of people who wanted to buy it. I did do multiple copies at one time (3) by putting in three times the veneer and cutting it all at one time. But that design had to be the particular colors of the original tray that the people saw, so I couldn't use leftovers.
Mike
[Also, if you're interested in learning this technique of marquetry, I'd highly recommend Paul Schurch's DVD on marquetry. He gives you a design (comes with the DVD) and then takes you step-by-step through making it. It's a relatively simple design but it will get you started.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 09-05-2013 at 2:06 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
[OP]
Contributor
One thing that no one asked me is how do I create a design? I'm not an artist - I have no artistic ability at all. What I do is go on the web and look at pictures until I find something that is generally what I want. For example, for this design, I found a painting that was the general idea of what I wanted.
Then I take pictures of roses -some are pictures I take of roses in our garden and others are pictures of roses I found on the web. I print them out at a size that's appropriate to the size of the design that I'm doing. Then, I put them under a big sheet of tracing paper and move them around until I get a design that's what I want. Then, I tape the roses down and trace the shape on the tracing paper.
Leaves and stem are easier so I often just draw them in freehand. A good eraser is a valuable tool in this process because I'm often not satisfied and erase, change the position or location and trace again. Eventually, I get a design that looks good to me.
Then, I have to copy the design full size - one copy goes on the packet and is cut up. The second copy is my guide to putting the design back together. So if I'm working on a flower, I can look at the second copy and see that a certain petal is element #22 (for example). I go to the grid and get the proper piece from the stack on 22 and sand shade it. Then I put it into position on the background.
I might point out that Paul Schurch teaches a slightly different method. He recommends sand shading first and assembling as a different step. In his method, you take a piece, sand shade it, and put it back on the grid. Then, you re-hydrate the sand shaded pieces by moistening them and pressing them betweem two boards. When you're finished, you proceed to assemble by taking the sand shaded pieces and putting them into the background.
I mention the design work because I think one thing that keeps some people from attempting marquetry is that they feel they have no artistic ability. While it's nice to be able to just draw what you want, you can create very nice designs even if you can't draw at all.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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