Don't give a rip or is it time to buy a bandsaw thread

[Tony Wilkins]

So I was out trying to saw a table leg out of walnut. I've always read that ripping is tough and found it true thus far. After several minutes (and about half way down the 28" leg) I was pretty well spent. I began to think that I'd be done with all four right now if I had a bandsaw or table saw or something. I went the hand tool route because with my PTSD I hate the sound of power tools and for some reason now have an aversion to the fast spinning blades of death. Those things still apply.

All that said, how do you handle rips?

TIA,
Tony

[David Weaver]

I sit on whatever I'm ripping if it has any significant amount of length. That allows two-handed saw use which you can do almost indefinitely. Makes for a much less sore sawyer the next day, too. If your leg is about 3" thick, it should be something you can do in walnut ultimately in a few minutes without getting too tired. Ripping all of them might be enough to make you tired, though, and if you're sawing in a more traditional stance, but the hand holding the saw bench and the arm doing the sawing will both be tired.

[Steve Voigt]

Tony,
First off, my sincere condolences for your affliction. And thank you for your service to this country. You and your fellow servicemen and women do not get 1% of the gratitude you deserve.
It sounds to me like your saw is not sharp. Forgive me if I'm beating a dead horse here, but from your previous posts it seems like you might have an aversion to sharpening. My suggestion is to tackle this issue first. In sawing, as in everything else, sharpening is the gateway skill. If you can't sharpen, you are dependent on others, and the postal service, to get your saws sharp, and you will always be forcing dull tools because you subconsciously dread having to send them out.
Also, given your situation, you might find that sharpening is just the thing. Done properly, it is a meditative, calming, therapeutic activity.
There's a real connection between hand tool use and Tai Chi or Judo: You have to constantly seek the path of least resistance, rather than forcing and using brute force. It sounds like you may be doing the latter (I do this a lot, too, but I keep trying for that zen-like approach and it gets easier all the time).
I strongly encourage you to stick with the hand-tool approach for all the reasons above, but again sharpening seems like the first thing to tackle. In your last thread, Dave W. and I both posted some preliminary advice on saw sharpening--we disagree about the 42x but otherwise the advice is the same. And he's probably right anyway--the 42x is def easier if you're a beginner.
Beyond that, a little Googling will turn up hundreds of pages of great advice on saw sharpening, so get searching! And good luck.

-Steve

[Zach Dillinger]

David has it right on. You will get tired, even if you saw correctly. The only way to succeed is to make sure that you are as efficient as possible with your movements and your work support, and make sure your saw is SHARP (EDIT: Steve is right on, he was typing as I was typing and our messages crossed). Good sawing shouldn't leave you really out of breath or too sweaty unless you do too much of it (depending on your physical condition) in a short period of time or your work support and tooling is sub-optimal.

As to how I handle rips, I use a 28" rip saw, usually a 5 1/2 but sometimes an 8, and go to work. Get in a good rhythm, be smooth and not in a hurry, and keep your plate waxed.

[Tony Wilkins]

The saw should be sharp; it's the Wenzloff from the first thread and this is the first time I've used it. Maybe an issue of it being a relatively high TPI (though I can't remember exactly what it is)? Work holding is probably not optimal. I'm using a B&D workmate because I'm trying to wait until after we move in a few months to avoid the movers destroying it.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, probably not optimal. One way or another, you need to be solidly oriented so that you can use bodyweight. In the case of leaning over a saw bench, your arm and shoulder are bearing down on the saw. In my fat lazy sitting case, both of my arms are pulling from somewhere near my forehead and then pushing down on the saw.

You can make a saw bench out of a single 2x12. I'll post a picture of mine at some point, i should be ashamed. I made it out of a 2x12 in less than an hour. it works great, even though it's horrid looking, I'm glad I didn't spend any more time on it.

[Tony Wilkins]

I liked the look of the one that was posted on here a few days ago (saw bench that is). Probably could take a 'time out" from my table to make it. Only lumber I have handy is poplar and cherry. Any way I could use either of those? Also have the walnut I have for the table (8/4) that I have plenty of.

[David Weaver]

It really doesn't matter what you use for the lumber on a saw bench. Sooner or later, you'll hit it with a saw, anyway. I wouldn't waste 8/4 walnut of any stripe on it. Mine is a DF 2x12. It's dented up, but I don't care.

[Jim Koepke]

It really doesn't matter what you use for the lumber on a saw bench.

My saw benches are made of culls from Home Depot. Can often get a few good pieces of 2X for anywhere from 51¢ to a couple of bucks. Occasionally I have been successful at talking someone in the lumber department to lower the price. That only involves them spraying a different color of paint on the end.

As much as I like my saw horses they don't have to be treated like high priced pieces of art.

jtk

[David Weaver]

My saw benches are made of culls from Home Depot. Can often get a few good pieces of 2X for anywhere from 51¢ to a couple of bucks. Occasionally I have been successful at talking someone in the lumber department to lower the price. That only involves them spraying a different color of paint on the end.

As much as I like my saw horses they don't have to be treated like high priced pieces of art.

jtk

I kind of like to not have to pay attention to my shop furniture or care if I spill stone swarf on it or drop something on it, ..or in this case especially, rip a saw mark into it by accident.

[Sam Stephens]

good all round advice. sawing should be efficient and move at a good pace. for me, a saw bench fits the bill for good support and positioning my body. If i lived in a walnut-cherry forest, I'd probably use walnut or cherry, but since I'm in the SE where yellow pine is plentiful and cheap, it's my go to. Any borg lumber will do, or if you'd rather use what you've got, then I'd use the poplar -4/4, 8/4, don't matter which. As David indicated, it took me all of a few cuts to put the first nick/cut into my saw bench so don't fret over how it looks, just get it done. Keep it simple so that it fit your needs now so you can get back to your project. JMTCW.

Sam

[Pedro Reyes]

... I was pretty well spent.

Tony

Tony,

Last week I started to make a rocking horse for my 2 year old out of 6/4 Cherry. This after about almost 4 years without really touching tools except for the occasional therapeutic sharpening session. Anyway, it was like being a newb again and I re-learned that, in addition to sharpness and position, the thing that tired me the most was trying to push the saw beyond its ability to cut (speed and force). When I relaxed and let it do the cutting, it went much better, just my 2c.

/p

[Tony Wilkins]

I definitely know what you are talking about. There is that magical point where you aren't fighting the saw and it seems to be gliding through the wood -- thinking Jedi with light saber (Light Disston?)

[Charlie Stanford]

So I was out trying to saw a table leg out of walnut. I've always read that ripping is tough and found it true thus far. After several minutes (and about half way down the 28" leg) I was pretty well spent. I began to think that I'd be done with all four right now if I had a bandsaw or table saw or something. I went the hand tool route because with my PTSD I hate the sound of power tools and for some reason now have an aversion to the fast spinning blades of death. Those things still apply.

All that said, how do you handle rips?

TIA,
Tony

Don't press the saw it actually slows down the process. You grip it about with the same pressure as you'd use to shake the Queen's hand - not a whole lot. At the end of the day this will be as fast as it gets. Make sure the saw is sharp of course. Rub the teeth with a stub from a hard, white, household candle.

Sawing with the work in a vice is the least fatiguing when the workpiece will allow it - probably won't in the case of table legs but keep it in the back of your mind. Standing upright feels better to me. You can also rip overhand with the stock clamped to your bench. This is an upright dealio too.

[David Weaver]

Don't press the saw it actually slows down the process. You grip it about with the same pressure as you'd use to shake the Queen's hand - not a whole lot. At the end of the day this will be as fast as it gets. Make sure the saw is sharp of course. Rub the teeth with a stub from a hard, white, household candle.

Sawing with the work in a vice is the least fatiguing when the workpiece will allow it - probably won't in the case of table legs but keep it in the back of your mind. Standing upright feels better to me. You can also rip overhand with the stock clamped to your bench. This is an upright dealio too.

The upright deal is probably why sitting on your butt is also easier than leaning over the sawbench. You're sitting and your back is in an upright position, so there is no issue with using your back and another arm to hold up your bodyweight, only part of which is actually moving the saw, anyway.