LN tapered tenon saw

[Lloyd Robins]

I am posting this due to a past thread. I recently ordered a LN tapered tenon saw. I asked about the new size, and there seemed to be a question in the person's mind about sizing. I placed the order anyway and then emailed them again about the saw sizing. I got the following reply:

Lloyd,

The tapered Tenon Saw is now 3" at the tip and 3-3/8" at the heel. This makes the blade less likely to warp and makes it a little easier to control.

I apologize for the confusion. We missed making the change on our website when we changed the saw.

Cheers,

Deneb

I checked a few hours later and the site reflected the correct saw sizing. This makes the saw plate very close in size to the Gramercy sash saw only a couple of inches longer, which is exactly what I wanted. I hope this helps. The saw should be here in a couple of days, and I am looking forward using it.

[Bryan Robinson]

I bought the tapered carcass saw and it is fantastic! I will be interested to hear about the tapered tenon saw.

[Lloyd Robins]

Bryan, I really like their tapered saws also. I have the other two already, and the hang and taper just seem to make cutting level easier as well as faster. I did have the LN progressive dovetail, and I liked it. But now that I intend to try my hand at sharpening, I decided that it would be a too complicated. I also had the 14 in tenon crosscut, but it was just too large for the work that I do, so I went with the tapered crosscut saw. So far I am very happy with the decision to change.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I apologize for the confusion. We missed making the change on our website when we changed the saw.

Deneb

I checked a few hours later and the site reflected the correct saw sizing.

P1sses me off completely that it took them six weeks to make the change on their website after I emailed them about it.

Good luck with it and let us know how you like it. I still have mine but it feels a tad bit too long.

[James Conrad]

I think the changes they made achieved what they wanted, I was able to try out the saw on my recent visit to Maine. I have the older version which I do like, not the most used saw in bunch, but I may swap it out for the new one.

P1sses me off completely that it took them six weeks to make the change on their website after I emailed them about it.

Good luck with it and let us know how you like it. I still have mine but it feels a tad bit too long.

Send the tool back if you don't like what you got due to a site listed error, Lie-Nielsen is a straight up company. It would be nice in the utopian world if all the quality tool companies we depend on did everything perfectly, I'd rather they kept that perfection in making their tools.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Send the tool back if you don't like what you got due to a site listed error

I was going to but just couldn't get around the money wasted on shipping, whoever was paying. My real point was that it takes a few seconds to correct the 6 characters of text on the page, why not just fix it when the error was first reported.

Anyway, they are great saws.

[Lloyd Robins]

Sorry, I didn't mean to reawaken any controversy over the saws. I really just wanted to let everyone know that the error was corrected and also to share my happiness over completing (for now) my saw nest. Hilton, I would have been upset at what happened also, and I certainly understand especially with the distance, time, and cost to return the saw. In fact, I did really look at other saws, even though I have drunk the LN Kool-aid and really like their tools. Also, if you don't count the Pax saw, the LN saws are also on the lower end of the price range for jointery saws, which seems strange to say. Even from Daryl W. and others the prices for the Disstons are right there with the LN. LV saws were less costly, but didn't quite meet what I wanted. All the other new saws were $90-$100 more except the Wenzloff which is out of stock at LV. Lastly, I think that the new size will be perfect for me, so I really had to go with the LN. The saw shows to be out for delivery today, and I will give it a try tonight.

[David Weaver]

LN's saws are more machine done than a lot of the more expensive looking saws, and LN has better production facilities for the stock parts of the saw (slotting backs, dealing with spring steel, cutting teeth, etc). If you look at their dovetail handle, there is a little bit of hand work in it, but not much. It still looks handsome given the amount of labor that's not in it compared to a handle that someone like wenzloff would've done. Atria is another one where the handles appear on the surface to have been designed to eliminate hand work.

The other thing LN does is to apparently not scale handles on the bigger saws for the size of the saw, and to put the handles on all of the saws pretty much in the same place. Their large tenon saws look awkward with what is similar to a disston #4 size small handle (that disston would've put on many 10 and 12" saws.

As far as the price of the refurbished saws, as much as I'd like to encourage everyone to refurbish their own saws, I understand that's dicey if the saw isn't already in almost perfect condition and someone is on their first one. I still think it's an admirable goal, because your average nice saw cost will end up being about $50 instead of $250, and you'll be the saw doctor any time it needs attention.

Even 6 or 7 years ago, it wasn't hard to go out to ebay or look at tool lists and get very good disstons for about $25, and saws like the #12s in clean or close to it shape for $50-$60. The rise of the absolute pig dealers going to all of the tool auctions and outbidding anyone who might want to use anything, only to turn around and list the tools for 3 times what they bid has pretty much killed that, combined with the interest in old saws (which is definitely bigger now than it was 7 or 8 years ago). I still pick up saws when I see something that I like, but I am glad that the rise of the dealers who are absolute greedy pigs occurred after I got most of my saws. Most of the dealers of the walt/Josh/Former clint jones types are the dealers we were used to dealing with, they bought cheap and sold reasonable and still do provide value to the new users.

What still exists out there in very good usable form is the later saws that are not great quality, but are still good quality, and that can be bought at flea markets for $3 from time to time. They are actually very respectable user saws, and they are slightly softer than many of the really old saws and the new premium saws made of 1095, so they are easy on files and easy on the filer.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Love those curly maple handles.

[Chris Hachet]

I am posting this due to a past thread. I recently ordered a LN tapered tenon saw. I asked about the new size, and there seemed to be a question in the person's mind about sizing. I placed the order anyway and then emailed them again about the saw sizing. I got the following reply:

Lloyd,

The tapered Tenon Saw is now 3" at the tip and 3-3/8" at the heel. This makes the blade less likely to warp and makes it a little easier to control.

I apologize for the confusion. We missed making the change on our website when we changed the saw.

Cheers,

Deneb

I checked a few hours later and the site reflected the correct saw sizing. This makes the saw plate very close in size to the Gramercy sash saw only a couple of inches longer, which is exactly what I wanted. I hope this helps. The saw should be here in a couple of days, and I am looking forward using it.

Thank you for the information, I have been considering this saw for myself as well. I already have a couple of larger back saws, this size seems like it would be idea. Please follow up with an "in sue report" when it arrives and you have had time to use it. Thanks! Chris

[Lloyd Robins]

David, I live in a saw free zone in the Mojave desert. There is one gentleman who sells excellent rehabed saws on ebay that lives in the area, but my guess is that he travels to the LA/San Diego area to find them at the swap meets and flea markets. The LN handles seem to fit my hand well (small) so I guess that I will see how it works on a larger saw. It seemed okay on the other LN tenon saws that I have tried. I got my #12 on ebay from a gentleman who has excellent feedback. It looks pretty beat up, but the handle is comfortable, and it cuts like a dream. The most comfortable saw handle that I own is my D-8 that I got from our own Mike 1010. It is a wonderful saw. I have tried one rehab of my own, and I really didn't enjoy it. I guess the saw was in extra bad shape, but I probably won't try it again for at least a while.

Hilton, I love the handles also, but I think that David is correct, which probably accounts for a lot of the price difference between the LN and higher priced saws. I wonder why Pax doesn't just step it up a bit and move into the market.

Chris, I will give you an update. I am not an expert or even good sawyer, but I will report as best as I can.

[David Weaver]

MJD auctions might be a decent place to get a batch of saws, but it's iffy whether or not they can get your bid made for you after you place it, and in the only case where I've had a high bid and they didn't screw it up, they tied my long saws together so tightly toe to toe that the top two were bent permanently in the shape that they tied them with a pronounced gradual wave that I had to hammer out.

At any rate, they still may be the best option. You can literally get a half dozen or a dozen saws for the price of one restored saw, just have to be careful in a lot like that where you pay only for the saws you'd like to have and ignore the ones you wouldn't and don't count them as value to you, they'll more likely be a burden (i.e., there are lots that have 6 saws, and 5 are desirable, and lots that have 6 and 2 or 1 are desirable and the one that's desirable is really really desirable - the others are no asset then and you only want to bid what you'd bid for the one).

Browns auctions also do the same thing, sell in bunches.

If that isn't palatable, ebay still has a lot of saws that go through, especially atkins or some disstons that you can ask the seller if they're straight, and if the answer is yes and the teeth are in decent shape, they are a hop and a skip from being a great saw. Handles with names carved in them and such make them a better deal for a user.

[Chris Griggs]

FWIW Chris, I too think the LN saws are a very good value. They bridge a nice gap between the LV saws (which are a crazy good value, but possibly not everyone's cup of tea), and the smaller makers who smallest saws start at like $175. My first 2 backsaws were LNs and they served me very very well (sold both when I made my own...thanks Archie!). I had the 11" 15 ppi rip carcass which made for a great dovetail plus other things saw that I and the 14" xcut tenon saw. I loved the carcass saw especially, it was fantastic...though I have no regrets about selling it I still miss it sometimes just because it was the saw I learned on. The tenon saw was nice but I personally like a thinner saw plate so I was less in love with it...good saw though, and thinking back on it, it probably came with just a hair too much set in it and had I known at the time to stone it just a little I probably would have liked it even more.

The LN 16" thin plate tenon saw is a phenomenal tool..I've only used it briefly but it was love at first stroke. If I hadn't gotten into building my own I definitely would have purchased it, NO QUESTION.

[James Conrad]

I was going to but just couldn't get around the money wasted on shipping, whoever was paying. My real point was that it takes a few seconds to correct the 6 characters of text...

Agreed on that, I don't know what they have for content management system, or who does their marketing for that matter - but if they are trying to keep it local they may be challenged in finding a decent provider outside of Portland. My experience shows that a majority of Maine businesses still rely on that customer/programmer route to get ones site updated, and that can be unfortunate... Anyway enough on that.

[James Conrad]

David your synopsis is spot on, really liked reading that.
Thanks.