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Thread: Mac vs PC (not really off topic)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    One of the biggest drivers in the mind of computer users and companies buying computers has been the price point. Then it was the person in charge of the computer help department's personal choice. Many knew that if they didn't buy machines that kept their department busy, they might be out of a job to a once a week contractor.
    At the company where I worked before (60,000 employees) and where I work now (30) that wasn't the case in either one (could be different public vs private, though) . The total cost of owning a PC is less, and our users are all familiar users, so we don't have any real issues (in terms of ease of use). It's a requirement of the job (I am not a programmer, though). Companies are very aware of the total cost of using and supporting a PC, and if a PC becomes too expensive to support because it's junk, they will dump them. An exact case of this at the large company where I used to work is dumping dell and going to lenovo. Lenovos were slightly more expensive at the time, but far more reliable.

    Where I work now, it appears our hardware budget (monitor and all) is about $1000 per user every four years. Every once in a great while, we'll have to replace a PC because it junks out. We have been using dell again where I work, because they atoned for their sins and stopped making the garbage they were making around 2004 when they decided cutting costs was more important than anything else.



    A good friend of mine is a network engineer and computer guru.

    It seems his biggest problem interfacing with people has been an inability to realize they do not understand computers as well as he does. He has been getting better at his human interfacing over the years. He can go on for hours telling me why I should over clock my machine or do some other fancy stuff. I listen, smile and drink a few beers. In the end, my clock speed stays the same and my computer runs fast enough for me.
    Yeah, we don't do the overclock things any longer. It's not worth the trouble, I'd rather have cheap and functional. I got a refurb laptop the last time I got a PC, and at the time a mac equivalent (processing power and memory) was three times as expensive. The same reason that I use PCs is the reason we overclocked back then. In 1997 or so, macs were junk (at least their OS was, which makes the computer kind of crappy) and more expensive than PCs, and if you wanted top line performance, the P3 450 at the time was top dog. It also cost (for the processor only) $750, but intel made a cheap chip called the celeron that could be clocked to 450 like the expensive pIII, and it ran most applications just as fast, despite some slight differences in architecture - as long as it was overclocked. It cost $64 for each of us to get one at the time, and I had built an entire gaming PC for less than the cost of the top line chip.

    Maybe such things exist now, but it's not what I'm into. I'm glad to have had that experience, it saved me money then and it saves me money now. I can waste that money on tools and sharpening stones...and nice wood. Don't tell my wife I said that.

    (I know plenty of types like the friend of yours that you describe. If they don't play golf, i start to tell them why they should be so interested in ben hogan and how ben hogan believes every golf swing should be made).
    Last edited by David Weaver; 09-01-2013 at 7:20 PM.

  2. #32
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    A simple analogy.....

    Microsoft is to Apple as Ryobi is to Festool!

    I want things that just "work"!
    Choosing Windows 7/8 over Apple OSX and IOS is sort of like choosing Harbor Freight tools over Festool!

    “They come from the desert, but it is we who have our heads in the sand.”
    Ben Weingarten

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Trinkle View Post
    A simple analogy.....

    Microsoft is to Apple as Ryobi is to Festool!

    I want things that just "work"!
    Except that this is the neanderthal forum...

    So I'd go:
    Mac is to LN48
    as
    Windows/Llinux is to (Stanely#45 or LV small plow with t&g attachments)


    Matt

  4. #34
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    I agree with your assessment of the "mac" tool user. It's definitely how I feel about tools (I just want them to work so I can make stuff) and in fact it's why I own Macs (so I can spend less time hating the computer and more time doing things with the computer). Though that being said, there's a lot of guys who also buy Macs because they just work like a Festool most of the time but still allow you to get into the inner workings of the UNIX backend via the CLI and fiddle with everything.


    However, I think you're off on calling the other kind of tool user a PC user. I think you really need to call them Linux or UNIX users. THOSE are the computer guys that really like to fiddle and fettle with stuff on a hardcore level to get stuff to run they way they want it to AND they're the guys trying to buy ancient computer parts at flea markets because they're a "good deal" and in the end only can manage to make an network-attached, auto detecting coffee maker with them once they get them home :lol:

  5. #35
    Me, I'm definitely a PC (or Unix) type woodworker. I like old tools. They just have loads more character. When I see a message about a free shiping event from LV, it leaves me cold.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Cruea View Post
    You forgot one other major player. . .Linux.
    Ah, but whenever I get the hankering for Linux stuff, I fire up Terminal and get real work done in the command line where all my favorite Unixy goodness resides. I run some linux-y stuff in X11, as well.

    Same way with woodworking, too - there's some stuff where I just don't want to bother, and some stuff where I really want to get under the hood or make it myself.
    " Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice

  7. #37
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    for some reason ( budget??) I seem to like trudging around and picking up old rusty things, like planes ( Hunter Gatherer??) and doing the restorations needed. To me, it is almost as much fun as building a project. The ones I don't need are sold. With the price of shipping on the buyer, I can usually get my cash back from a sale. Only to turn around and buy another rusty item.

    nobody is paying me to build stuff, so I do NOT need to worry about how much time it takes. Stuff I build is for Family, and around the house. Also fun to learn about the items I do restore. Some of the history, how a plane was used, or misused ( the evidence of that is written all over a plane. The fancy-schmanzy Wood river came to me as a prize, for being a featured woodworker on another site. Out of the box, wasn't too bad, but had to be returned. seems the wrong chip breaker was installed. They made it right, and now the "new" plane is my finishing plane, instead of sandpaper. The only sandpaper I need nowadays is for sharpening stuff.

    I guess that, since this IS a hobby to me, I don't put too much into buying new, shiny stuff. Need them big bucks for things like tires for the van, rent money for the place I live in, and other bills. Last weekend, had maybe $10 to go along a mile long vendor's row, looking at old tools. Bought two items, and a Mountain Dew (was a might on the toasty side there) and spent a day or two restoring them to almost new status. Figured out where I fit as a PC?

  8. #38
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    When it comes to tools I'm a Mac guy who keeps trying to be a PC guy.

    I've got 32 cubic feet of tightly packed old tools I'm going to restore some day.
    Every now and then I put two or three hours of effort into one, give up and return it to the space.

    Then along comes another antique tool swap meet...

    Some day there's going to be one heck of an estate sale.
    AKA - "The human termite"

  9. #39
    You guys jinxed me! MIL/FIL are in town and the old laptop (7 years old) decided that it wouldn't start up!! For $600, I expect it to last forever!! (just kidding, 7 years is fine, but FIL is disappointed because he doesn't have anywhere to read the news).

  10. #40
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    Linux and Shop Fox Users

    Ignoring some warts in Linux (it has been my primary platform for many many years, so I am well aware of the numerous warts), I love that I can drop to a command line and type something simple like

    "yum install libreoffice"

    and a few minutes later I am running the requested software.

    So are Linux users like "shop fox" users where one machine can do all sorts of things? I ask this never having used a shop fox.

    I suppose that Android and the Apple iPad / iPhone things are somewhat similar. It looks like Windows 8 went in that direction somewhat as well.

    They all seem to be heading the same direction.

    I might argue that if Mac things come extra "bloat ware" like all Windows boxes seem to, then they all require work to remove extra garbage you don't want.

  11. #41
    Heck yes, Mac. The last thing I want when making something is for the freaking tool to break, so you can imagine how I feel about Windows.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Roderick View Post
    Heck yes, Mac. The last thing I want when making something is for the freaking tool to break, so you can imagine how I feel about Windows.
    Basically these days they all work pretty well, but they look very different. For example, I find it very irritating when Windows interrupts a movie I'm watching to perform updates and restart. Geesh, who are these people?

  13. #43
    Linux guy here. I make my living off of it.

    I gave a presentation last year on more or less this kind of topic. It is from the viewpoint of a programmer/woodworker, so please forgive any technicalia in there. *Do* scroll down in each page to read the notes! https://people.gnome.org/~federico/d...tml/index.html

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Federico Mena Quintero View Post
    Linux guy here. I make my living off of it.
    Oh, weird, it never even clicked that you were *that* Federico. Cool! Thanks, too.
    " Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Curtis View Post
    Basically these days they all work pretty well, but they look very different. For example, I find it very irritating when Windows interrupts a movie I'm watching to perform updates and restart. Geesh, who are these people?
    Engineers!

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