Anybody have a Chevy Volt??

[Rick Potter]

Thanks Michael.

Road noise. Is it because the car is noisy, or is it because the car is quiet and you hear more tire noise etc. that the motor normally covers up?
Visibility: Is it worse than other cars of it's type? I want the back up camera setup.

Back on point:

Coal/Oil? In my case, my solar panels produce more electricity than I use.

Electricity? See above. I expect my charging will be almost covered by the panels.

Battery? The batteries, charging system and all electric drive components are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles.

Cost? Still high, but they dropped the price 5K on '14 models and rebated the same on '13 models, plus 4K dealer discount, plus CA incentives. This brings the base '13 model to as little as
22K this weekend, according to the local ads. Of course my wife wants a loaded one. If we get one, it will be the end of the year when the '14's are being discounted.

One concern I have is about buying Vs leasing. I suspect there will be big improvements in electric cars within a few years. If I lease it for three years, it will allow me to return it for a new and improved model, but there may not be any incentives available, and it will cost much more. On the other hand, if I buy it, and there are no incentives, in three years, it might be better to keep it. Its a conundrum.

Anyone else have one? All info appreciated.

Rick Potter

[Brian Elfert]

Leases usually have a fixed residual cost that you can buy the car for at the end instead of turning the car in. If at the end of three years it makes sense to keep the car you can do that.

[Michael Dedon]

Rick, It's road noise/tire noise, windows up or down. Just generally not a sealed up and quiet ride. Rear camera is fine but it's at the bottom of the bumper and won't cover looking over your shoulder or trying to see over the rear wing at something like "Is the garage door all the way up?". We also have solar panels w/battery backup/etc. The Volt is a heckuva car. I was blown away at the actual everyday cost of driving it. Her work commute is ten miles but she's running around every weekend with her sister. And she's not coasting between every traffic light either. It really is enjoyable to drive. Drive one for some distance, city and highway before purchase. You might not have the same objections or they may not mean as much to you. Actually, Would we buy one again? Yes.

[Jerry Thompson]

It is not about the price of gasoline. First of all if electric cars are so great why are our tax dollars needed to off set the total purchase price? What about depreciation? What about the end life of the batteries? It costs many dollars to replace them. Very little of our electric power comes from solar or wind. Solar only works a few hours a day and clouds and rain can cancel that out. Wind is a fickle friend @ best. The cost per kilowatt hour is out of sight. Nukes are aging and not being replaced. We are left with hydro, coal, gas and oil for the most part. Those will have to suffice until another source(s) is found. There would be precious few electric autos if they were not subsidized. If all the electric cars were on the road that greenies want we would not have the generating capacity to run them.

[Jim Matthews]

I believe the OP plans to use his PV panels to "charge" the battery.

His net consumption of Coal fired electricity will drop near zero.
For those plugging in an EV without a panel on the roof, their vehicle will become "cleaner" as the supplier converts the combustion plant.

Petrol or even Biofuel powered engines will never become cleaner than the day they leave the factory.

[Jim Matthews]

This is classic reluctance to adopt technologies that won't pay off in the complainant's lifetime.

We've subsidized plenty in this country before, like Apple for instance. We bailed out traditional car makers that can't maintain profit margins, why not invest in the next transportation mode?
Presuming that this coming Century will roll out like the last betrays navigating by watching the rear view mirror - the low hanging fruit is already taken.

"There would be precious few electric autos if they were not subsidized. If all the electric cars were on the road that greenies want we would not have the generating capacity to run them."

Perhaps you can put facts, figures and citations behind such a blanket statement.
Do tell.

[Greg Peterson]

The amount of fossil fuel expended to move a electric motor x miles is less than that expended for the internal combustion engine. Electric motors are vastly more efficient than internal combustion engines. The internal combustion engine is terribly inefficient.

There are numerous ways of generating electricity to charge a EV, whereas internal combustion engines require a single source.

Germany has demonstrated that solar does work by building a vast network of solar arrays on residential housing. By day, power is being supplied to the grid, when demand is the highest. The government subsidized the solar array program partly because it's less expensive to increase power capacity via a distributed solar array network than it is to build another power production plant. And it is more sustainable.

ROI should not always be measured months or a few years. We need to start thinking in terms of generational ROI.

Know a couple of folks that drive Prius's. They love them. One couple has over 150,000 on theirs, never had any problems with it. That's a whole lot of gas stations they have passed.

[Mike Henderson]

If all the electric cars were on the road that greenies want we would not have the generating capacity to run them.

If you look at the load on the grid, you'll see that the demand is highest from about 10 am to maybe 6 to 8pm. After about 11pm the demand is significantly lower for several reasons:
1. Companies are shut down or on reduced workload. Certainly, most of the white collar workers are gone.
2. Most people are sleeping and not using lights, computers, etc.
3. The air is cooling down so the demand for electricity for air conditioners is lower (they don't need to run so much).

That period of about 10pm to 6am is low load for the power companies but they still have to keep the generators operating. If load can be added to the night time, it will allow the power company to operate more efficiently, so they can afford to sell the electricity for a lower rate.

I don't know how many cars you're alluding to, but we can add a lot of electric vehicles before we'll have any significant issues with the power grid.

Also, as some else commented on, distributed generation (solar on lots of rooftops) is ideal for meeting the peak demands during hot weather. The maximum energy is generated during the time of peak demand, and it's generated where the electricity is consumed so we don't need to upgrade the grid.

Solar does not mean we do away with fossil fuels because we still need a baseline of power on the system. But it can keep us from having to build more fossil fuel generating stations even as demand (especially peak demand) increases.

Mike

[Jim Matthews]

ROI should not always be measured months or a few years. We need to start thinking in terms of generational ROI.

Around here, we can't get steady school funding or money for roads.
I see this as a tough sell to anyone near retirement age.

You've touched on the essential value in hybrid and electric vehicles - low maintenance costs.
Major makers will get behind this product line when they can get a piece of the charging infrastructure build out.

It's no accident that Tesla is also nurturing Solar City, to establish this model.

[Kevin W Johnson]

If you look at the load on the grid, you'll see that the demand is highest from about 10 am to maybe 6 to 8pm. After about 11pm the demand is significantly lower for several reasons:
1. Companies are shut down or on reduced workload. Certainly, most of the white collar workers are gone.
2. Most people are sleeping and not using lights, computers, etc.
3. The air is cooling down so the demand for electricity for air conditioners is lower (they don't need to run so much).

That period of about 10pm to 6am is low load for the power companies but they still have to keep the generators operating. If load can be added to the night time, it will allow the power company to operate more efficiently, so they can afford to sell the electricity for a lower rate.

I don't know how many cars you're alluding to, but we can add a lot of electric vehicles before we'll have any significant issues with the power grid.

Also, as some else commented on, distributed generation (solar on lots of rooftops) is ideal for meeting the peak demands during hot weather. The maximum energy is generated during the time of peak demand, and it's generated where the electricity is consumed so we don't need to upgrade the grid.

Solar does not mean we do away with fossil fuels because we still need a baseline of power on the system. But it can keep us from having to build more fossil fuel generating stations even as demand (especially peak demand) increases.

Mike

Only so if most everyone can get to work and back home before needing a charge, however I seriously doubt that will be the case. Most will need to charge while at work, to make the journey home.

[David Weaver]

Where I work (urban area) there is already access to electricity in some places, and since this is natural gas central right now, we have entire groups of fleet vehicles running on propane here (garbage trucks and taxis) and saving a lot of money. Propane is probably cheaper here than it is almost anywhere else because it's a byproduct of the natural gas industry.

Anyway, what I'm getting to is that every large building downtown here where people park will have electric access for a fee, and they may already (I ride the bus). I've seen volts here and tesla S examples around, too.

[Greg Peterson]

Only so if most everyone can get to work and back home before needing a charge, however I seriously doubt that will be the case. Most will need to charge while at work, to make the journey home.

The US Census Bureau reports the average commute time is 25 minutes. This fits well within the Leaf's range. The Volt and Prius, being hybrids, would not be impacted either way.

Charging stations are popping up all over the place. Times they are a changing. You will certainly be able to still buy a traditional automobile for many years to come. However, the single driver commuters in one ton 4x4 pickups have seen their best days. Between Google cars and EV's, options that make better sense are coming on line.

[Matt Meiser]

Yeah but a some of us really skew that with our 0 mile commutes.

[Jerry Thompson]

There still has to be conventional power generation to back up high/low wind days and cloudy raining ones. These units don't just start up buzz bang. Start up takes a good while. I will still take more of what we have until other methods become financially viable. I do not have validation about all cars being electric would swamp the power system as I do not recall where I read it. Solar and wind take vast amounts of land area. Why do the proponents of wind address the thousands of birds killed by wind turbines?

[Greg Peterson]

Jerry - Germany produces almost five times the amount of solar energy as the US. How and why is this possible, given that the amount of sunlight they receive is lower than almost any state in America? There are many variables, but the bottom line is the Germans are committed to creating a sustainable energy platform.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...levels-of-sun/


The cost of solar will continue to decline and the cost of fossil fuels will continue to increase. Oil used to be cheap, plentiful and easy to retrieve. All the easily accessed oil has been consumed. And with the growing economies of China and India weighing in on the international oil market, we are unlikely to see oil prices go down. Energy in the 20th century was very, very inexpensive. It's a new world now, and the old rules are phasing out.