Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: MDF cabinets ruined by tiny amounts of mositure (can you protect it?)

  1. #1

    MDF cabinets ruined by tiny amounts of mositure (can you protect it?)

    About 5 years ago I build a European-style cabinet from MDF. I like the way MDF takes paint and its smooth finish. But I now notice that almost every single shelf has been ruined because of small leaks from stuff (jars, cans, etc.) I have stored there.

    I painted the cabinets with a primer and a high quality oil based paint. I used the same paint for a pantry I built from pine. Although we use the pine pantry more often, none of the spills ever ate through the paint to the wood. In contrast, all of the spills in the MDF ate through the paint, and of course, once MDF gets wet, it swells and becomes almost useless. I can't figure out why so many minor leaks corroded the paint on the MDF. When I saw that a can of soda had leaked and eaten away the paint, I thought "well, that's just the acidic nature of soda (such as coke)." But I now I just notice all four shelves suffered from the same type of damage. I believe that some of the damage resulted nothing more that pooled water.

    Is there any way to better protect MDF in future projects? When I search on the web, I note that almost no one has had the same experience. Yes, serious exposure to water will ruin the MDF, but most people state that paint will protect it from normal exposure (and it will, so long as the paint remains intact). I wonder what high quality MDF cabinets use to protect the material. I know melamine is often used, but melamine looks awful, and I know some cabinets are actually painted.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    3,789
    I expect some penetrating epoxy would protect it from anything.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lawrenceburg, Tenn.
    Posts
    1,133
    I read that if you paint the edges of an MDF panel with glue, and let it dry, it will make it take paint well and make it waterproof if you use Titebond III or some other glue like that.

    Doc
    As Cort would say: Fools are the only folk on the earth who can absolutely count on getting what they deserve.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chappell Hill, Texas
    Posts
    4,741
    Hi Paulh.

    I don't understand why the paint on the pantry shelves is outperforming the same paint on the MDF shelves. Were they painted differently or by a different person? Was different primer used?

    There are different grades of MDF. Do you know what grade MDF you used, or, perhaps where you bought it might give a clue.

    I have had MDF garage cabinets for 20 years, in a humid environment. I don't particularly care for MDF myself, but at the time, it was an good solution to my need for cabinets. They are still together, functioning just fine, so I have not replaced them.

    I try not to use MDF for shelves because they are so prone to sagging, as compared, length to length, with pine.

    How long have the MDF shelves lasted? (As an aside, now that they are ruined... did you save any money going with MDF shelves? )

    And, ... there's no such thing as a high quality MDF cabinet. There are expensive MDF cabinets, mind you.

    Todd

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northern Illinois
    Posts
    739
    Todd's note made me think of something......It's a shot in the dark but could the increased deflection of the MDF over the pine pantry shelves be cracking the paint coating and allowing moisture penetration into the MDF?
    Wood'N'Scout

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,514
    Blog Entries
    1
    This one will be interesting to figure out. Like Todd, I have MDF shop cabinets. They were shellacked and paste waxed and have taken all sorts of abuse. My workbench top is MDF with BLO and pastewax; it will show if it gets wet. I would expect a good primer and paint to do as well if not better than shellac. As far as cracking, I haven't run into a paint for the home that wasn't extremely flexible including enamels(?).
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    Recently, I have been looking at a lot of older houses for rental property. I noticed that every single kitchen that had cabinets made of MDF had exactly the kind of damage you describe at least to some degree. I don't mean to be too pessimistic, but I do not think that common grade of MDF is suitable for any kind of cabinets that will be wet. It doesn't matter what finish you apply. Eventually, water will get through and the MDF will swell and dissolve like cardboard.

  8. #8
    I painted the the two types of cabinets the same way; that's what puzzles me. Deflection probably did not cause the paint to wear, since the paint was worn on the bottom shelf, dado-ed into the sides; plus, the damage occurred on the end, and you would expect deflection in the middle.

    There are at least two ways to solve my problem: use plywood for the bottoms and shelves, or use shelf liners. I would like to stay away from making the whole carcass from plywood, since it will not give as dead flat a surface as MDF.

    Most cabinet pros swear by MDF if you are going to paint them, or if you want a modern look. No other material is supposed to take paint so well or be so dead flat. As I type this, my coffee mug sits on a mid-century modern piece that is at least 20 years old and very well made. It has a veneer on top. My girlfriend couldn't believe it was MDF until I flipped it over. I say all of this to explain why, on the one hand I have an affinity for MDF, and on the other, and starting to rethink using it again after what i discovered tonight.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Burch View Post

    And, ... there's no such thing as a high quality MDF cabinet. There are expensive MDF cabinets, mind you.

    Todd
    Why not?

    Anyway, a good varnish or lacquer would protect your MDF from moisture. Although, I doubt that's really your issue. Pictures of the damage would be helpful. Are you using real oil based paint or some low voc oil based light?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Hines, MD View Post
    I read that if you paint the edges of an MDF panel with glue, and let it dry, it will make it take paint well and make it waterproof if you use Titebond III or some other glue like that.

    Doc
    It's not really the edges that got the damage, but the faces. However, I have come across several threads on painting MDF that suggest doing just this. It is called glue sizing. You can either buy the substance, or make it by mixing glue and water. You are supposed to apply it to the surface, sand, and then paint. I guess if you could use a waterproof glue to seal the surface.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chappell Hill, Texas
    Posts
    4,741
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    Why not?
    Because you can't put lipstick on a pig and call it a beauty queen.

    MDF is sawdust and glue. It is not made to pass the test of time. It's a product for a disposable society. Its popularity exists because it's cheap, dead flat, dimensionally stable, and takes paint and glue well on it's surface (and not the edges, without a lot of other prep). It wasn't made for beauty, grain or longevity. Proper screws for its joinery (confirmat) are large and ugly.

    But, perhaps I'm being too hard on it. Perhaps there are some "high quality" MDF cabinets out there. (High quality is not equal to good looking) Perhaps it depends on your definition of high quality too.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,970
    Some folks learn from their mistakes or the experience of people who have been doing it for a long time. Others don't.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Upland CA
    Posts
    5,572
    Just wondering if it was regular MDF or Light Weight MDF? Maybe someone more expert than me could tell us if it would make a difference. I know the light weight stuff sure dents on the edges easier.

    Rick Potter

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Islesboro, Maine
    Posts
    1,268
    For future building of cabinets where moisture may be a concern they make a moisture resistant MDF




    Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF)

    Moisture Resisitant, FSC Certified, No Added Formaldehyde (NAF)

    Medex® is a sustainable, moisture resistant, medium density fiberboard (MDF) panel utilizing a formaldehyde-free adhesive system and pre-consumer recycled wood fiber. Medex® is engineered for interior high moisture areas in non-structural applications and is used in place of sanded plywood or solid wood. With the versatility of a superior composite wood panel and the enhancement of indoor air quality, Medex® has been specified in hundreds of commercial, institutional and conservator projects since the 1980’s.

    • Medex carries an industry leading MR50 moisture rating

  15. #15
    If I was using MDF for cabinets, I'd use an impermeable drawer liner on all of the shelves.

    Won't solve any issues with big spills, but it will eliminate issues from small ones, leaks, wet dishes, etc
    ..
    Last edited by David Weaver; 10-07-2013 at 8:30 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •