Go to tools for turning small(ish) boxes

[Dan Masshardt]

I recently turned my first lidded box and want to get into making more of them.

I got a good amount out with a gouge but I'm realizing my scraper options aren't very good. I have three very large scrapers that I picked up at a sale. Will be nice for bigger stuff but too wide for small boxes. I do have a 1/2" round nose scraper that's okay.

1. I don't have a square end scraper and I'm trying to decide whether to get 1/2", 3/4" or 1".

2. Also, I have a cheap box scraper that works okay but is cheap steel that needs to be sharpened often. Does anybody own / recommend the sorby box scraper?

3. Third (last) has anybody purchased a flat tool rest specifically for boxes? Thank you.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Dan, box making is a vortex all by itself. I have the Sorby box scraper and it works well. As with any tool, there is a learning curve. I like the Hunter box making set. They work really well on the inside of curved boxes. Also, another learning curve. I have never used the flat box rest. I don't use scrapers much on the inside of my boxes. Good luck with the new addiction.
Joe

[Thom Sturgill]

Dan, my scrapers are all either 3/4" or 1" most being 1". I want enough steel out there to keep vibration to a minimum.

Look at the Doug Thompson's Jimmy Clewes scraper. I bought one of Doug's blanks and ground it to that profile. It has a square corner but the edge is at an angle to minimize the length in contact with the box. Neither one shows the scraper on their site, I saw it at the national symposium. The left side is ground at about 7 degree angle with the end ground square to that for about 1/4" then rounded back. Doug's steel makes the best scrapers and skews I have used. Next to that I like the Sorby Heavy Duty (1/2" thick) monsters and then the Benjamin's Best set from PSI.

I do NOT use a grinder burr, but rather use a tool made by Lee Valley (Veritas) for creating the burr. I polish the top surface just like I would the bottom of a bench chisel.

[Brian Kent]

Thom, I am curious. How do the 5/16" thick Thompson tools compare to the 1/2" thick Sorby Heavy duty scrapers in vibration? I love my Thompson gouges. I have the Benjamin best set of scrapers.

[Reed Gray]

Just about any hollowing tool will work for the inside of the box, but they tend to be more roughing tools. I use my fluteless gouges for a lot of the finish cuts, especially for going across the bottom of the box, and some times up the sides. I prefer a shear scrape for this cut, and the fluteless gouge is easy to roll up on its side for this cut. The carbide tipped tools that are at a 45 degree angle will do this as well. I have a 3/4 by 1/4 scraper that is specialized for cutting the mortice and tenon for the box bottom and lid. I keep it square on the nose, and relieve the left side (square also) for the recess which I put in the lid. Keeping it square helps line up the mortice and tenon. You line up the shaft of the tool with your lathe bed and plunge straight in. I have a 6 inch machinist ruler that I put on both the mortice and tenon sides and eyeball that with the bed of the lathe to see how 'perfect' the line up is. The lids seem to work a lot better if they are parallel, and the calipers are not accurate enough. I did try for a while to have a square shoulder at the bottom of the box, but had a lot of trouble with tool marks that I couldn't get out. I always made them rounded now. I also like a negative rake scraper to finish off the top and bottom of the box. I can never seem to get a perfect cut with any tool except this one. You know, you think you have it cut out and sanded out, then put on the finish and tear out shows up. The negative rake scraper will get rid of all of that. I also use a small skew as a negative rake scraper for truing up the tenon on a box. I can square it up, and take off tiny amounts to adjust the lid for fit. I also use one to adjust the shoulders of a box that is threaded so that the grain will line up. You can take off fine enough shavings so that you don't have to go to 320 grit sand paper to get the perfect fit. I use the standard tool rests, though small ones, not the 12 inch long ones. I seldom do any that are over about 2 inches deep, or more than 1 1/2 inches wide. You run into wood movement problems with any that are wider than that.

robo hippy

[Thom Sturgill]

Brian I have not used them as extensively yet. So far I have not had a problem with chatter and that may be because they cut so well.

5/16" is the minimum that I would go for a scraper, and thicker is generally better - but I would think the natural frequency of the steel would also be an issue and maybe the micro-crystalline nature of powder metal would make it vibrate less. I just checked a few tools and I guess all HHS lacks the 'ring' I would associate with carbon steel. I am not a metalurgist, so that's just a guess FWIW.

Definitely when you go thin, sharp tools are a MUST as the wood can flex away from the tool if the cut is not clean.

[Michael Stafford]

I routinely turn boxes up to 4 inches in diameter and as deep as 6 inches. The design of the box determines which tools to use.

I use a detail gouge ground to about 45-50 degrees to do the rough hollowing and finish up with Hunter Tools or a square scraper depending on the design. My favorite square scraper is 3/8" thick and 1/2" wide. Of course it is not ground square. It is probably only square for the first 1/8" on the left corner and is curved toward the right. Having this shape enables it to cut cleanly across the entirety of the bottom of the box without engaging the full width which causes most of the catches. The entire left side of this scraper is relieved from the top to the bottom about 10 degrees so that the left edge can be honed and help act as a cutting edge.

My favorite tools are the Thompson 3/8" and 1/2" detail gouges which I use for hollowing; the Thompson 3/8" and 1/2" spindle gouges for exterior work and the #3 or #5 straight Hunter tool for cleanly cutting the interior bottom. For undercut boxes my favorite tool is the #5 Hunter swan neck. The smaller #1 Hunter set works great on small boxes than 2 inches high and less than 2 1/2" in diameter. Properly used the Hunters will greatly reduce sanding time on the inside of the box.

I like to use a 1/16" tapered blade parting tool to start the cutting of blanks in two and usually finish them with a band saw with the blank in a cradle. I cut the tenon upon which the lid will fit with a parting tool and like either a 3/16" or 1/8" diamond blade to be the easiest to form a slip fit tenon. Of course you can do it with a skew as well if the wood cooperates. The inside lip of the lid flange is cut with a square scraper and I use calipers to determine that the sides are parallel. Practice makes perfect and after a while (and a couple thousand boxes) it becomes must easier to both cut the flange and to determine parallelism with the calipers.

The most important aspect of box turning is the use of dry wood. Dry wood allows precise fits and lessens the likelihood that the box will develop a twist fit due to changes in humidity.

[Dan Masshardt]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Who sells the hunter tools that are mentioned? Are these the carbide ones?

I'm contemplating buying a Benjamin's best square scraper to practice modifying the grind etc.

On the other hand, woodcraft has sorby 20% off and they carry the extra thick scrapers.

[Michael Stafford]

Just Google Hunter Tool Systems. You can order them directly from the manufacturer and there are videos on the site to show you how to use them.

[Harry Robinette]

For boxes I like the Soren Berger tool,it give's you a square corner at the bottom. The tool leaves a really good finish cut also. The tool sharpening jig is really good to have. I also use a Crown round box scraper.

[Reed Gray]

I think the Soren Berger tool gives me more problems than a skew does. It could be because I use the skew more than I do the Berger tool. Just haven't figured that one out yet.

Also, no matter how 'dry' the wood is, I always rough turn the box blanks first, let them 'adjust' for a few days, then finish turn them.

The 5/16 inch thick scraper is adequate, and I have one that I use a lot on bowl roughing, but the 3/8 is just right, and I have one 1/2 inch thick one, but it is too thick. The thickness is for stability, and I don't think width makes much difference. Besides, too wide and you can't get it inside a box. If I am using one to reach out a good distance off the tool rest, I use a hollowing tool because it has a smaller cutting surface, and you don't want long and wide. Too much risk of getting over powered by hanging out too far.

Oh, yea, a nice thin parting tool is essential for parting off the lid.

robo hippy

[Thom Sturgill]

Oh, yea, a nice thin parting tool is essential for parting off the lid.

robo hippy

I like to use a beading tool which is about 1/2" wide to cut a groove just the depth of the wall thickness less the thickness of the lip. This could also be done with a standard parting tool with the groove about twice as wide as the parting tool. Then part off with a thin tool leaving just a hair on the side opposite the lip. I prefer the lip to be on the top, some prefer the bottom. This leaves a visible raised area and allows you to hollow up to the edge very accurately - better than using callipers.

[Harry Robinette]

Robo
The Berger tool needs to work center to edge ONLY. A hole drilled to depth in the center is almost a must. Turn the cutter edge 2* or 3* (play with this) downward then cut straight across. I find it does a great job and can't figure out whats happening when you use it,to me it ether cuts or don't cut. Try honing the edge and remove the burr from inside the slot the burr will stop the tool from cutting at lest that's my thoughts.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have the Sorby box hollower, and really can't reccommend it. I also have the Benjamin Best set and use them regularly. The good thing about the Sorby box hollower is, you can use the other cutters that they sell. The Sorby hollower I think is a finishing tool. You can do the entire inside of the box with the BB scrapers. The thing I really like about the BB set is the long side grind, which allows you to make the box sides nice and sraight.

[Stan Smith]

Robo
The Berger tool needs to work center to edge ONLY. A hole drilled to depth in the center is almost a must. Turn the cutter edge 2* or 3* (play with this) downward then cut straight across. I find it does a great job and can't figure out whats happening when you use it,to me it ether cuts or don't cut. Try honing the edge and remove the burr from inside the slot the burr will stop the tool from cutting at lest that's my thoughts.

I agree, Harry. Probably 9 years ago, I called the tech at CUSA and asked for a box tool recommendation for a rookie. He recommended the Berger tool and said that a beginner would have little problems in learning it. I had very little turning experience at the time and no trouble using the Berger for some small boxes. I haven't turned any boxes for a few years now but am getting ready to start again. I'm going to hone the tool first with my diamond stones. I see that CUSA no longer carries the Berger, but that Packward does. If I didn't already have this tool, I'm not sure that I would buy one now, but I do like the idea of smoother sides rather than what I would get with my carbide tools. They do take the stock down fast though. Since I enjoy turning, I'm in no big rush. One of the biggest benefits that I've received from wood working is patience.