Poor Observations of David Charlesworth's Planing DVD

[Tony Wilkins]

I got the David Charlesworth Planing video on Monday and watched it a couple of times already. This is the one that is the second of a four part series of DVD's (the first is the plane sharpening DVD I haven't gotten yet). I'm sorting through the information in my head.

Here's what I've gotten out of it so far:

1. He prefers 'longer' planes such as 5's and 5 1/2's.

2. Instead of planing 'flat' - which he says does not exist in the real world - he uses stop cuts to plane in a slight hollow. He does this in every dimension of the 'datum surfaces' - along the edge, across the board, and the length of the face. He sets up his 'long' planes as "super smoothers".

3. He takes very small shavings, for example 1 thou for normal planing, 2 thou for beginners, and up to 4 thou to take down a lot of material. This varies from Schwarz that talks about taking 1/16 to 1/8 inch shavings with the fore plane. I'm guessing that this is because Schwarz is talking about rough milling whereas Charlesworth is talking about finishing off machine milled lumber.

I'm sure there's some I missed. I'm not guaranteeing I got it all right either lol.

So has anyone else watched the video? What do you think of what he demonstrates in the video.

[Brian Kerley]

I don't think Schwarz takes a full 1/8 on his jack plane. That's a heck of a cut. I think he's more in the 1/64 to 1/32 at the thickest.

[David Weaver]

I think Schwarz overestimates his ability to take a deep cut, too. If you tried to take a 1/8 thick shaving, the board and plane would stay still and you would move.

[Jim Koepke]

3. He takes very small shavings, for example 1 thou for normal planing, 2 thou for beginners, and up to 4 thou to take down a lot of material. This varies from Schwarz that talks about taking 1/16 to 1/8 inch shavings with the fore plane. I'm guessing that this is because Schwarz is talking about rough milling whereas Charlesworth is talking about finishing off machine milled lumber.

Even when my weight was higher and my strength more youthful it is doubtful any of my shavings came close to 1/8 of an inch. One would have to file a pretty wide mouth for that to not clog.

Maybe with a scrub plane taking a very narrow shaving.

Recently it took me a good amount of effort to take a full 3/4" wide shaving that was about 0.020". When you take a shaving that thick, most of the time, lateral marks in the shaving from the tear out effect will be visible. They are also likely to be seen on the planed surface. A zipper like sound can also usually be heard when taking such thick shavings.

It might be that Chris Schwarz was talking about removing that much stock with a plane only not in one pass. Taking down 1/8" with a dozen passes is no big deal.

jtk

[David Weaver]

Charlesworth's DVD is an excellent demonstration of precise work, and the principles used to do things precisely are good to know - especially the use of a stop shaving followed by through shavings.

You can work with heavier cuts and at a higher rate of speed if you like to, though. But one thing is for sure, if you can't do precise work slowly, you won't do it quickly.

[Jim Koepke]

But one thing is for sure, if you can't do precise work slowly, you won't do it quickly.

It is like learning to type, get the accuracy down first. The speed will come later.

jtk

[Judson Green]

OK dumb question. Whats a "stop cut"?

Is this planing into the center and stopping there? And then what? Retreat? Sort of swype off to the side?

This doesn't leave marks?

[Tony Wilkins]

It is lifting the plane off the board while it's moving and it does not leave a mark. It's sort of like you plane is an airplane taking off from the surface of the board.

[Judson Green]

Thanks Tony. Guess I've sort of done this when joining two edges, but it has always left a bump. So I've finished by taking one full length swype. Still having the effect of "springing" the joint. Never thought of doing this on something wider than the plane itself.

Thanks again.

[Chris Griggs]

I don't think Schwarz takes a full 1/8 on his jack plane. That's a heck of a cut. I think he's more in the 1/64 to 1/32 at the thickest.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this. I always thought his statements that he "regularly take 1/16-1/8 thick shavings with is jack sound extreme. Its possible probably, but not easy or practical. I'd say 1/16 at the very center of a cut with heavily cambered blade about maxes out a plane....and that's a heck of a heavy cut, not at all fun, and may still be an overestimate.

[Steve Voigt]

OK dumb question. Whats a "stop cut"?

Is this planing into the center and stopping there? And then what? Retreat? Sort of swype off to the side?

This doesn't leave marks?

I haven't seen the video, but it's standard practice, in any dimension, to set the plane down so that the cutting edge is a couple-three inches past the edge of the board that's closest to you, then stop your cut a couple-three inches from the edge that's furthest from you. When jointing, this often referred to a "springing" the joint, because it leaves a slightly concave edge.
Yes, it can leave visible plane tracks when you do this, but you can remove these with one or two light, full-length passes. The point of the technique is that if you take only full-length passes on a board, eventually you will have a convex surface. So, you correct by planing in the middle of the board. I like to do this until there's a concavity that is barely visible under a straight edge, then take a couple full length passes to remove the concavity.
I really disagree with the comment that "flat does not exist in the real world" and so you should aim for a slight hollow all the time--that makes no sense to me. Yes, it's true that any "flat" surface I create will not actually be flat; if you put it on a granite surface plate and run a dial indicator over it, you will get fluctuations. But that's not the point. The point is that it's very possible to get a flat surface within the limits of my measuring instruments. If I can plane a surface so that no light is visible under a straight edge, then it's "flat in the real world"--not flat in a mathematical, theoretical sense, but in a usable, practical sense. Why would I want to distort that by deliberately creating a hollow?
Sorry for the rant. I don't know why that quote set me off, but it did.

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this. I always thought his statements that he "regularly take 1/16-1/8 thick shavings with is jack sound extreme. Its possible probably, but not easy or practical. I'd say 1/16 at the very center of a cut with heavily cambered blade about maxes out a plane....and that's a heck of a heavy cut, not at all fun, and may still be an overestimate.

So I remembered right, he does say that he takes a 1/16th and sometimes even an 1/8th. I was beginning to think I was wrong when I said that and was going to go back to my books and videos of his.

I probably would have kept my OS Jack if I'd know that. I was thinking that I just couldn't get the right/thick enough shaving with it. I kept trying to find an old groat to compare against it.

[Chris Griggs]

Worth noting here and to his credit. In this article he says he "poops out at about 1/32".

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wo...n-a-fore-plane

That sounds much more accurate.

I don't remember where the 1/16-1/8 thing was said, but I do recall that as well. Perhaps we are having some type of collective false memory.

Anyway, in the above article what he says seems reasonable.

[Judson Green]

Thanks Steve for describing this practice in detail.

[Jim Koepke]

Sorry for the rant. I don't know why that quote set me off, but it did.

No need to apologize to me, my feelings are with you on this. There is no reason that comes to me why one should work diligently to get a surface as flat and smooth as possible to only carve out a depression in the middle.

That is why there are so many different books, schools and methods out there to follow.

If you do not like one, pick one that does things more like you do.

jtk