The Best Things also has long thin flexible paring chisels and I bought the set.
They're made from some kind of O1/spring steel. It tool a while to get them flat (LV and LN have spoiled us)
but once they're prepped, they are great.
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The Best Things also has long thin flexible paring chisels and I bought the set.
They're made from some kind of O1/spring steel. It tool a while to get them flat (LV and LN have spoiled us)
but once they're prepped, they are great.
AKA - "The human termite"
Contributor
I have asked L-N a couple of times to make a run of 720s. So far no luck.
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Nicely made Cody.Originally Posted by Cody Cantrell
May I ask how you ground the lands? Just free hand or do you have some machine tooling?
Also any suggestions on the relative geometries?
I have a stack of old planer blades stashed away that are looking somewhat like they may achieve a new life...
Contributor
Forgive my ignorance, but why is it desirable for western paring chisels to be flexible? Does the blade actually bend under weight? Is it the feedback you get from light flexible chisels that is useful? Thanks.
Member
I set up a fence on the bench grinders tool rest and slid them back and for on a coarse grit stone on a slow speed. HSS is not my favorite material to work with because you cant anneal it so everything has to be ground not filed. But the positive is it is not as detrimental if you overheat it.
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Based on my experience only (haven't seen any reason in writing) a flexible chisel can be used as a dog-leg chisel.
That is, the face of the chisel on the wood surface with clearance for the handle.
AKA - "The human termite"
Member
When you're paring just a fraction of an inch with a long, flexible paring chisel, all you have to do is align the flat of the chisel in the plane you're paring, and flex the chisel, which springs the cutting edge of the chisel forward just the teeniest little bit. The length also aids in finding an exact angle. Imagine the precision of a protractor with a radius of, say, six inches (a butt chisel), versus a protractor with a radius of eighteen inches like a paring chisel. Much easier to attain a more precise angle.
I believe many of the Japanese paring chisels have a slight curve in the metal portion of the chisel which may achieve a similar result without having to flex the blade. Granted the Japanese thin paring chisels are typically heavier than the vintage western chisel, but there must be a point at which diminished blade strength becomes an issue flexing a long thin blade.
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Long, thin paring chisels have low bevel angles (20º or so), they have a bolstered shank--never a socket, and are only ever used with hand pressure--never a mallet-- for very very fine operations, so diminished blade strength is never an issue unless you're using a paring chisel improperly. Think of something a little less springy than a hand saw. The ability to flex the blade is a feature, not some sort of impediment you have to overcome to make the paring chisel work.
Frankly, there really isn't anything being currently manufactured that resembles true paring chisels. There are a lot of long chisels that manufacturers and retailers call "paring chisels" but it's just not the same. As far as I can tell there is no such thing as a Japanese paring chisel and there never was. Nothing against Japanese chisels per se, or today's long chisel manufacturers, but it's just not the same thing. Putting a long wooden handle on a bench chisel and calling it a paring chisel is, and this is solely my opinion, ludicrous.
One of the fastest ways to irritate people on forums is to make them feel like the expensive equipment they bought is somehow deficient, or to make them feel that they were foolish marks. That strikes at very deep seated insecurities and makes people feel foolish. The biggest blow ups appear to be when people have their notions turned upside down, and discover that they may have wasted money or opined foolishly in haste. So don't anyone get hot under the collar. Having said that, in my book, any paring chisel that isn't really long or springy, or made of a steel that allows you to grind it to 20º isn't a real paring chisel. You can do some really nice work with them, and you can do some paring operations with them. But they're not true paring chisels. I bought the long Buck Brothers "paring" and crank-neck chisels, and you know what? They're really nice. But they're too thick to be what I consider true paring chisels, and I've resolved myself to the idea that if I'm ever going to get the chance to use some nice paring chisels like I did in Britain when I was a kid, I'll have to chop up some flat bar stock, heat treat it, and make them myself. Maybe George Wilson could attest to this, but unless or until you've really used one, it may be difficult to really appreciate what makes them special and/or desirable. Definitely not an everyday use item.
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I don't know that I'd consider the japanese chisels bench chisels with a different handle (LN surely employs that by literally selling the handles to put in the bench chisels, but those guys recommend people buy a bunch of frogs for a perfectly good plane, too). The necks and the chisels themselves for the japanese chisels would not tolerate malleting, they are purpose built, though they don't spring. They do work better for paring applications, and seem to cut as well at 25 degrees as an old forged bolster parer would at 20 (perhaps because there's not much metal in the cut on the back) in terms of relative ease in the cut (That would be based on a comparison of a butcher parer and a new moderately priced japanese chisel)
Sometimes I consider selling of my japanese parers to get the money back from them because there's nothing I couldn't do with the vintage parers, but they are ...well, nicer to use, and they hold their edges better and can tolerate a wider range of cuts.
As for the heavy profile Cr-V or Cr-Mn parers that are out there now (including those buck brother chisels - I did buy 3 of the offset parers because they're so cheap), they are definitely not like the vintage chisels that are light, springy, and never exceed 1/8th of an inch in thickness.
The only caveat I'd make with the japanese parers is to buy them from a maker who does make them thin enough so that they don't feel like blocky bench chisels. The reputable makers all make them thin and light, but some of the corporate tool company chisels are made heavy and blocky. I haven't seen a modern western parer that would rank with a butcher paring chisel.
Member
Jonathan, what kind of work are you thinking of for typical pairing chisel applications? I have two very nice old Sorby's, using them for all kinds of stuff, but would like to learn more about them.
Member
Kees, it's just for very delicate operations. As an example, take a panel saw and lay the last third flat on your bench, with your hand on it to keep it flat, and flex the handle upward. Then, relax the amount of flex just a tad. The toe of the saw will advance along the bench, say, 1/128". It's used in operations, say splitting end grain, which is inherently unpredictable, and where an errant mallet-tap or hand pressure may blow out a delicate structure. One example I can think of *against* end grain is when making the pins on a half-blind dovetail in very thin wood; you don't want to blow through the surface of the box. I could see it being used by pattern makers, wood cut art (lots of delicate end grain bits dangling around there), carvers, maybe instrument makers. You don't need it until you need it, then it's the only thing that will do. Wish I could think of more real-world examples. That angled bit at the tops of backsaws maybe.
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I was just using my quarter inch today - the nice thing besides the flex-to-cut motion, and ability to prevent blow-out that Jonathan describe, is how much it adds to control. It's excellent in endgrain, of course, but works great in face grain as well.
It's hard to explain how, but working with the flex and gentle push goes a long way towards helping you keep it cutting where you want. I was making a bunch of narrow dadoes, and chiseling out a bit of waste at each cut line to help guide the initial sawcuts with a back saw to define the dado before cleaning out the waste with chisels and router plane.
Working with a bench chisel to meant a lot of stoppy and sometimes rought cuts; the tool wants to cut in too far, or lifts out of the cut, and once it starts going in a direction you don't want, it's hard to change that, particularly if you're cutting with the bevel facing up. The paring chisel let's you make adjustments to the "steering" as it were by working with the flex. Starting the cut slightly flexed lets you flex more or less to change the attack. Of course, the extra length helps a lot in this application to. I was able to get one long, curly cut out of almost the whole length of the 10 inch board.
It's hard to explain in words, but it makes sense in your hands. Another apt comparison like Jonathan's panel saw one, is sort of the difference between scraping something away with a rigid, thick scraper, and a thin flexible one, like the difference between using a screwdriver and a pallet knife to scrape something off a surface.
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
I can see how flexing a chisel blade with a given amount of pressure might hold the chisel on the surface and steer a steadier course. What I don't see is how this method has an advantage over a chisel built with a curved or cranked neck, used with the same pressure. Flexing the blade a given amount and holding it that way just seems to add another variable that must be learned and adapted to. The cut the blade makes must be a function of the angle the edge is presented to the wood at and the forward and downward pressure applied to the tool, having to maintain a given flex in the blade too just seems to add more for the brain and hands to coordinate. I can see that it might work well, I just do not see how it could be an easier hand tool skill to learn and maintain. I am also wondering how a manufacturer can design a blade such that an exact amount of flex will maintain the appropriate amount of pressure to cause the tool to function with maximum efficiency, without the flexing of the blade weakening the steel.
Contributor
Jonathan and Joshua, Thank you for the explanations and examples. I especially liked the screwdriver and pallet knife analogy. My take away is that the flexibility of the paring chisel attenuates the applied force, resulting in finer control. You could accomplish the same control with a regular chisel, but would need high motor skills.
Is there any commercially available flexible paring chisel I could buy to try out? Maybe you could recommend a vintage one I might look out for on the bay. Thanks again...
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