Sanding sealer really glossy

[Joe Shinall]

I am building a vanity out of reclaimed cedar. I was told to use a few coats of a sanding sealer then a few coats of a good lacquer. It's for a friend and he wants a satin finish. However the Zinser Seal Coat Sanding Sealer I used is really glossy.

I have 2 questions.
1: How much do I need to sand this sealer down between coats? I don't want to sand too much or the sealer will come off right?
2. Will putting satin lacquer over the top tone down the glossiness?

[Steve Schoene]

You will not need to sand between coats of Seal Coat unless there are defects you feel the need to remove. Seal Coat is, after all, just dewaxed shellac, a naturally glossy material. But, its only the final finish coat that determines the sheen.

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks Steve! I did have a few runs I needed to sand out and recoat. After brushing on a coat of satin lacquer, you were correct!

[Chris Fournier]

Lacquer over cedar is a bad idea in my opinion. Cedar is soft and laquer will not hold up under use. I have also seen the oils/aromatics in cedar mess up lacquer big time, sealed or not. Perhaps varnish would be a better choice if the client agrees?

[George Octon]

The lacquer doesn't dissolve the shellac?

[Joe Shinall]

I was told by a very long standing woodworking shop owner to use shellac then a water-borne lacquer on top. It's reclaimed cedar from old power poles, hard as a rock.

Just looking for a good finish at a good cost, it's a $100 piece for a friend, nothing special.

And George, the lacquer dried rock hard and perfect over the shellac on the test piece that I did. 3 coats of the shellac sealer and 3 coats of the lacquer turned out gorgeous on the test piece. Even tried scratching it with my fingernail and didn't see a mark.

[Steve Schoene]

Waterborne "lacquer" isn't similar to "lacquer" in any way. It is an acrylic coalescing finish emulsified in water. Standard lacquer is an evaporative finish with nitrocellulose resin dissolved in strong solvents that evaporate quickly. Waterborne finishes will not damage shellac and will work fine over dewaxed shellac, but may have some adhesion issues down the road if applied over shellac that hasn't had it's natural wax removed.

[Joe Shinall]

Steve, since I already applied the shellac, is there another finish you would approve of instead of the water base lacquer?

The can of Zinsser says 100% wax free.

[Larry Browning]

Your got good advice, as long as this is an interior piece. Many of us here use that vary same combination of waterbase "lacquer" over shellac. Stay with your plan.

[Steve Schoene]

Nothing particularly wrong using the waterbourne acrylic over the shellac. The other alternative would be to use an oil based varnish such as Waterlox if the wood is dark, or Pratt & Lambert 38 for lighter woods. These oil based varnishes would be considerably more durable than the acrylic but drying a bit slower may require a bit more work in rubbing our.

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks Larry and Steve, I think I'm going to stick with the waterborne lacquer on this project since I already have it sitting on my bench ready to use. It is an inside piece and it's going to have a vessel sink on it and will be in a spare bath that is hardly ever used.

I tell you what, I never used lacquer or shellac until the test piece I used for both and I love how easy of a finish it is to apply.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Joe -

FWIW: I put down a seal coat of shellac on virtually every piece of furniture I build. For virtually every top coat material I use. And between coats of stuff - dye - gel stain - top coat.

I don't use that product - I make 1# +/- cut from flakes - but there is no real reason not to use it, if you are an occasional user - convenient, and readily available. I would thin it, but that's just me.

[Joe Shinall]

Thanks Kent, I want to look into making it from flakes. Will probably try that out on some shop cabinets in the near future.

[Larry Browning]

Thanks Kent, I want to look into making it from flakes. Will probably try that out on some shop cabinets in the near future.

Most time the flakes are large (up to quarter size). We had an old food chopper (think giant coffee grinder) that was given to us as a present that we never used, so I used that to chop up the flakes into almost dust. That speeds up the dissolving process tremendously. However, it still takes at least over night. Also a coffee grinder works well too, just smaller batches of flakes.
When you get ready to try the flakes, do a search on here for links to good sources.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks Kent, I want to look into making it from flakes. Will probably try that out on some shop cabinets in the near future.

It's dead simple. Plus - you can mix up only what you need, and dink around with the cut strength if you like. Keep the flakes sealed, in the fridge, for essentially unlimited shelf life.

The freezer is in the basement near my workshop, so that's where I keep mine. 3 or 4 different ones, last I looked - Ultra blonde, garnet, etc., etc.

I have always just mixed from as-bought flakes, which does take some time to fully dissolve. Recently got a 2d-hand coffee bean grinder, though - will be going that route in the future. Either way, strain thru fine cheesecloth before use.

One word of advice: Stuffing finishing materials in the fridge/freezer can create a politically delicate situation. Voice of experience.

Be sure to point out that shellac is 100% non-toxic, and is used in many food items. Ever wonder why M+M's melt in your mouth, not in your hand? It's the shellac coating.