Well no real interest from me, I just thought fellow Creekers would possibly welcome an alternative opinion, good or bad.Originally Posted by george wilson
He just happened to start this chisel 'review' this last week, hence the threads.
[OP]
Contributor
Well no real interest from me, I just thought fellow Creekers would possibly welcome an alternative opinion, good or bad.
He just happened to start this chisel 'review' this last week, hence the threads.
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Guest
My take on these chisel "reviews" is that they seem ill informed and have little or no practical value. Novelty reading, I guess.
Member
Hilton, I appreciate and enjoy these posts, it's not often we get the opinion of an actual world-class wood worker on these forums. Based on his body of work he must know something about tools, but after all it's just his opinion and opinion is all we really ever get.
Guest
I don't mind savage's opinions, though I'd assume that he's putting them out because he feels like it's expected, and they do seem dated.
As far as an actual world class anything on this forum, we get opinions on this forum from a world class instrument maker, tool maker, ...long list of world class - every day. The lack of discussion about chisels and some types of tools from George probably tells us all we need to know about whether or not it's critical. George provides them for free, too.
Member
Agreed +1, it's good that a pro is taking the time to post about their experience, also it's good that people want to discuss and contrast it. Just because someone, pro or not, says something does not make it right. I think 99.99% of great results on the actual work comes from practice using the tools, whether that be an Irwin Bluechip or a Blue Spruce. Of course their are limits to what is a good tool but in the spirit of this thread, quality Japanese and western chisels from reputable makers will do a great job regardless of brand (IMHO).
Contributor
+1. People seem to be able to make great things with even older and/or less than ideal chisels
Member
When we were at the Metropolitan Museum in New York a while back,there was a special exhibit of inlaid stone tables. They were spectacular!! But,the ones made in Elizabethan times were fitted even more nicely than those made in the 18th. C.. As a machinist,I could not see more than a few thousandths of an inch in any seam,so closely were the early tables inlaid. And,the slightest mistake in inlaying them and CRACK!! No doubt the tools were better by the 18th. C.,too.
Then,consider the magnificent gold burial mask of king Tut. It was made with copper tools. Yes,gold is soft,but still,making the things found in his tomb with copper tools and terribly bad copper saws must have taken incredible patience. That gold had to be made into ingots,then pounded into sheets just to get started. Pieces had to be welded together. Blue enamels had to be fused in ovens whose heat were only controlled by the experience and expertise of the craftsmen. I marvel at what they were able to accomplish. Let alone making obelisks and large buildings,all from stone. Some from very hard stone.
Some of us have seen those marvelous bone models of men of war sailing ships made from soup bones by prisoners. Those are incredible,especially considering the limited number of tools of any type,and the paucity of material available to 18th. C. prisoners of war. Those men had to make those to PAY for the food and other "care" (like maybe a ragged blanket?) they got in prison!
Last edited by george wilson; 11-18-2013 at 6:27 PM.
Member
So, what, no one else's contributions have any value? That's rather limiting, don't you think?
This shouldn't need stating, but that is meant as neither pro one nor anti the other, just a reminder that it's a big world, with many actors, and if someone finds value in another's work or thoughts about work, how is that a bad thing? This is a discussion forum, after all.
Member
Oh, and Hilton, sensational photograph of the lightning!
Guest
My post was more directed toward not hearing the opinion of a world class woodworker every day. We literally do. And he was a toolmaker, too.
Personally, I don't go with the minimalist tool thing, so it's not an attempt to smash others' opinions and say folks can't discuss it, and I'd rather see these posts than not. What else would we talk about, most things aren't relatable in relative terms since we all have chisels, but we may not all want to build a roubo this or that. I stand by the point, though, that I have never seen a world class woodworker who wasn't teaching or marketing and who felt that there was a need to publish specific opinion about chisels.
[OP]
Contributor
Not sure if you think this is a good thing or not but I don't see the point of being world class (at anything) if you're not going to leverage from that. I think you may start out with this philosophy but once you gain worldwide attention for your work, there is a natural progression to articles, classes, books and general blogging.
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Guest
It's not a point as to whether or not someone leverages to make money, it's a point as to whether or not it would be much of an issue on their radar if they weren't bombarded with questions from beginners about what to buy. Contrasting the point with George, and someone like Tom MacDonald (who was using blue chips in his old videos before woodcraft picked him up), it's just not a topic that gets much attention or gets discussed much. If either was teaching regular classes, they would probably have a bunch of students demanding specific answers about what to buy (the same as many used to flip to the reviews in FWW and choose to get either "best overall" or "best value" winners). If you said, it doesn't really matter that much, it's not an answer beginners or students accept because it's not actionable.
That's why I said it seems a bit contrived.
I'm still baffled by some of the stuff (sorby's performance and characteristics being prefereable to LN, comments about japanese chisels being too bulky, etc), but none of that stuff really matters because you can ultimately do the same work with any of them if you have the desire to do the work.
[OP]
Contributor
I think a lot of bloggers feel the pressure to post something every day or every week regardless of whether or not the content is relevant.
I use Twitter to follow certain companies and professional people, but as soon as I get more than three tweets from you per day, I hit the unfollow button.
Less is more in this case.
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Hmm, the idea that old tool steel is superior to good modern tool steel is quite romantic but, not very probable. The idea that a bargain chisel of 100 years ago was superior in manufacture to a bargain chisel of today? No that I can get behind ;-)
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
I don't know if you are rite or wrong about the past, but I think in this modern world of the big box economy and the constant drive to make it cheaper, cheaper, cheaper, the assumption that anything modern is better is just as romantic. I have both new and old that are good and bad, but mostly it's hard to tell the difference in use, some old works better, some new works better. In general I think there are more good old tools than good new tools available at an affordable price. For the most part the high end, high price, new tools are aimed at the retired hobbyist wood worker.
Reply With Quote
