Chinese grinders and American bushings

[Max Withers]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley. The Ryobi worked fine out of the box, it gets really hot with no load, and the tool rests are just stupefyingly useless, but it has negligible runout or vibration.

I went to put the LV/Norton wheel on today and it was looser than a (insert obscene metaphor). Of course, I assumed the allegedly 1/2" Chinese arbor was out of spec, but Messrs. Brown and Sharpe say it is dead on, while the Made in USA by Norton exclusively for LV bushing is .615" ID.

Not blaming anyone, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Anyway, do I have to laboriously track down a 1" to 1/2" bushing, or order something from McMaster-Carr, or can I just shim the bushing with a couple layers of duct tape or something? If I do have to buy something, does the material matter? (E.g., Delrin, ABS, steel....) I just need to get it centered until flanges clap down on it, right? My normal inclination is to hack away at stuff like this with materials at hand (duct tape!), but I don't have a lot of experience with bench grinders and I don't want to blow up a wheel in my face at 3600 RPM.

[Winton Applegate]

And this is why one can't get by without a metal lathe.
Or a good local hardware store.
Since all my favorite mom and pop hardware stores are gone see my first option.

gets really hot with no load

ha, ha, ha I have never heard of such a thing. At least you will be able to toast weenies and marshmallows.

[Jim Koepke]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley.

... the Made in USA by Norton exclusively for LV bushing is .615" ID.

Anyway, do I have to laboriously track down a 1" to 1/2" bushing

Have you tried calling LV?

That would be my first step if they supplied you with a bushing that was supposed to sit on a 1/2" arbor for a wheel with a 1" mount.

Sometimes bad parts get past the QA department if they are doing statistical QC analysis.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I gave up looking for a deal on a decent bench grinder, and bought a $40 Ryobi from the big box and a tool rest and Norton wheel from Lee Valley. The Ryobi worked fine out of the box, it gets really hot with no load, and the tool rests are just stupefyingly useless, but it has negligible runout or vibration.

I went to put the LV/Norton wheel on today and it was looser than a (insert obscene metaphor). Of course, I assumed the allegedly 1/2" Chinese arbor was out of spec, but Messrs. Brown and Sharpe say it is dead on, while the Made in USA by Norton exclusively for LV bushing is .615" ID.

Not blaming anyone, but you know what they say about assumptions...

Anyway, do I have to laboriously track down a 1" to 1/2" bushing, or order something from McMaster-Carr, or can I just shim the bushing with a couple layers of duct tape or something? If I do have to buy something, does the material matter? (E.g., Delrin, ABS, steel....) I just need to get it centered until flanges clap down on it, right? My normal inclination is to hack away at stuff like this with materials at hand (duct tape!), but I don't have a lot of experience with bench grinders and I don't want to blow up a wheel in my face at 3600 RPM.

Amazon has any size bushing you would want. You can do a search on bushing, bearing. One manufacturer's name is "Bunting". Prices are cheap.

[Jonathan McCullough]

0.615" is ten thou off 5/8", which is 1/8" off of 1/2". The grinding wheel I got came with a number of concentric plastic bushings to adapt a 3/4" arbor hole down to about 3/8". There ought to be something available at the hardware store; it's not the first time this has happened. Some of them have "special parts" drawers in the hardware section with oilite bearings (one of which might work) and all sorts of other doodads. Go down and look around for and old guy with white hair. Probably named "Gus" or "Buddy." Tell them I sent you. Gus is highly opinionated, talks a lot of $h*t, can't find his &$$ with both hands, makes vaguely inappropriate jokes about demographics to which he does not personally belong, or about "taking your money" (heh heh heh), and will probably try to send you off with an ineffectual substitute for a highly toxic substance that didn't work in the first place when it was available fifty years ago. Like the plutonium in his childhood chemistry set. For which he nurses a grievance against the government. Buddy on the other hand scarcely says anything, has been anticipating you Yoda-like, and will noiselessly take you to the row, aisle, bin, and organizer tray that contains the exact and only 30-cent part you need.

[george wilson]

First of all,never buy anything made by Ryoba. They make junk,junk,junk. If you need a special bushing made,and can measure the shaft on the grinder to.001.",even with a Harbor Freight caliper,I can make you a bushing and send it to you. But,I HAVE to know the real diameter of the grinder shaft in case it's metric and is an odd ball size.

Never try shimming something with duct tape. If you MUST,at least use paper,or cut strips of shim out of aluminum cans. Duct tape is too squishy to make a decent shim.

PM me for help so I'll be sure to see the message. I might forget to look at this thread again.

[Daniel Rode]

First of all,never buy anything made by Ryoba. They make junk,junk,junk.

I think that's a gross generalization. I have several Ryobi tools and several others of similar quality from Harbor Freight. The idea that one should only buy the highest quality tools great advice if you are a premium tool maker. It may not be the best advice if one is a hobbyist woodworker. I buy some high quality tools, some used tools and some inexpensive tools with marginal quality. Often the lower quality tools require more time and effort to setup or do not have the same longevity as a premium brand. As a hobbiest, these are acceptable tradeoffs for me and don't affect the quality of my work. In other instances, only a quality tool will produce quality results.

As for a grinder, it needs to spin a wheel at something close to the advertised speed. That's pretty much it's whole job. In my shop, it would not likely run more than a couple of hours per year. The OP addresses the two issue I would have with a cheap grinder by buying a quality wheel and tool rest.

Assuming the correct bushing can be located, I'd suspect the Ryobi grinder will work effectively for many years. One could buy a very expensive grinder and not be improved in any way by the extra layout of cash.

[george wilson]

It is an observation based upon experience with Ryobi products. The OP's grinder is overheating with NO LOAD. How long will it be before it burns out? Grinders tend to get fairly regular use. That overheating means minimal wiring in the motor. Useless tool rests too. I'm not suggesting you buy the most expensive tools out there. Just don't buy Ryobi. My opinion,of course,but I am a retired professional with many years experience. I have some HF stuff,like everyone does. But,it's a grab bag whether or not it will have durability. You get what you pay for. I buy HF ceramic kitchen knives. The last 1 1/2" near the tip is a flat spot cutting edge!! The bevels don't come together. Shaving sharp further towards the handle. However,I have diamond grinders,and the where with all to correct this problem. For $9.00 I'll take the HF rather than buy an expensive knife made of the same ceramic,but properly sharpened. Your average hobbiest isn't going to have the capability that I have to correct this problem. I have an el cheap mucho Grizzly small nail driver. I only needed it to replace the missing quarter round moldings in the house. Not for daily,professional use. It did the job just fine,and that was all I needed. I have to gauge what I will buy with how much I'll use it. But,a grinder that overheats BADLY with no load is not a good bet. And,you DO need decent tool rests. I'm still using my 1960's flat face Craftsman bench grinders. They were cheaper tools at the time,but still built before standards went completely into the can. THey have very good tool rests that are double jointed and can go into many positions. I love them. They are made of steel,too. Not some alloy that will get imbedded with grit,and have very limited adjustability. No overheating at all,either.

[glenn bradley]

Even if the wheel fit perfectly, you will still need to balance and true it. I would wrap some foil tape or whatever stable material you have around the shaft to keep things put, slide the wheel on and continue your setup. JMHO.

[Chris Griggs]

If you MUST,at least use paper,or cut strips of shim out of aluminum cans."

George you always seem to post useful info just when I need it! I need to shim the riser block for my bandsaw and have been trying to think of something better then paper or tape that is still thin that it will let me dial things in. I like the aluminum can idea. I can't believe that didn't occur to me! I have lots of those, and given that its Friday should have several more empty ones tomorrow morning . I love that you hang out with us amateurs George. Thanks for the tip.

Sorry for the hijack Max. Just wanted to mention that I thought the cans was a great tip.

BTW, for anyone looking for a great entry level grinder with usable (albeit not great) rests this is the one to get: http://www.lowes.com/pd_78808-46069-...der&facetInfo=

I've linked to it in other bench grinder threads several times, but I figure it doesn't hurt to mention it again, since there are always newbs lurking out there perhaps looking for their first grinder.

[Peter Gavin]

Any hardware store will have the bushing you need. Bronze would be the material I would chose.

Peter

[george wilson]

I always make my bushings out of brass or bronze. They don't get rusted onto the shaft from quenching with water, coolant, etc..

[Jonathan McCullough]

Hey George, riddle me this, and I realize you're not an engineer, but have you noticed that the newer electric motors are lighter and seem weaker, and that the ball bearings they employ don't seem to keep the armature spinning as long? I go to a flea market on a regular basis and have picked up a couple of Baldors as well as a Craftsman flat-front grinder on your advice. They're excellent and take about three minutes to stop spinning once you turn them off. The RI or split-phase motors you see on equipment today seems really inferior, under-rated, maybe with poorly machined or misaligned bearing cups? I don't think the ball bearings they use are worse than from forty years ago; if anything they're probably better. The universal motors seem to get hot very quick.

[george wilson]

My old Craftsman grinders ARE split phase! Just made heavier. But,no argument from me that the newer motors are lighter. Manufacturers seem to keep pushing the limits of how thin their wires can be in their motors(The same as how much undersize lumber and plywood can be made).

I suppose the lighter motors don't have the inertia to keep running longer after switched off. That's why they stop sooner,probably.

I am still using my 1963 Craftsman drill press. Just last year,the motor pooped out!! And,it was a cheap looking motor at that,with a wrapped thick sheet metal housing. Die cast end bells. I found another old motor to replace it with,sadly. I might take it open to see what is wrong. It didn't actually let the magic smoke out. Might just be that the thrust bearing beneath the shaft wore out. It is a vertical mount motor.

That old drill press has seen a lot of use,too. Abuse as well. With the original hi-lo speed attachment I wisely bought when they were still available,I can get 10,000 RPM for routing. (Cost $15.00 at the time,IIRC.)Don't do that much routing any more,except with a very small bit to help waste away cavities for pearl inlay in ebony fingerboards for guitars. It will go VERY slow,too. Quite valuable for drilling large holes in steel. Many of the "heavy duty" drill presses these days do not go slow enough to drill the size holes in steel that they CLAIM to drill. At the not so slow speeds they do,they'd quickly burn the corners right off a HSS drill bit.

I think it is such a violation of common sense that some shop vacs are stated to be SIX and a HALF H.P.!! Yeah,and they still run on 15 amps,110 volts. Well,the rule for 220 volt motors is 3 amps per H.P.. That would be 6 amps per H.P. @ 110V. So,we're sucking nearly 40 amps out of a 15 amp circuit. And,they have 1/4" shafts on the motors.

I wish the gov't. would put a stop to that kind of false advertising. But,they don't seem to notice.

[David Weaver]

I'm sure the ryobi grinder is a different one than I have, when I got mine, it was $40 and had two piece rests, and a healthy dose of vibration. I have to admit, though, that it always worked and still does. I'd use the cheap grinder, just ignore the fact that it gets hot (even the baldors get pretty warm if you leave them running for a while - there's nowhere for the heat to go).

Anyway, if the grinder needs decent rests, figure out how to get them on it, but just use it until it drops.

Most tools now are junk. I have a Rigid cordless drill that was supposed to be a decent piece of gear, but after a couple of years of very light use, it stops mid cut and you have to give it a second and start again. Any significant load on it stops it. I ended up replacing it with a ryobi combo that was $99 with two lithium batteries, a drill and an impact driver, and I have to admit that the quality of it seems every bit as good as the ridgid. It'll have to break right away to be any less durable.

My only other ryobi tool is a cheap hammer drill that I've used to drill into the floors, walls, steps outside and through refractory brick and I have to admit it's stood up pretty well for a 1/2" hammer drill that was $59.

It seems there is no real progression of quality any longer, it's either junk or it's great, but most of the mid priced stuff is also junk, but priced between junk and good. I'd use the grinder until it drops, it may never actually quit.