Plug a 70w Helix 24 into my 'welding outlet' (220 on 50amp breaker)

[Terry R Peterson]

I don't know much of anything about electricity, so I appreciate any suggestions. Today my 70w Helix 24 is coming in. I'm already running a 30w Helix 24 and 30w Zing 16 in my garage. Add that to the air compressors and ventilation, I know I'm pushing the load on the breaker supplying my garage. Plug in one tool with this equipment running and the 20amp breaker trips.

I had a welding outlet installed on a dedicated 50amp breaker in the garage a few years back which I don't use anymore. The Helix has an "autosensing" 110-240 power supply. Typically this type of power supply is something you find in laptops for international travel.

Is there anyway to plug my Helix 24 (which obviously comes with a standard 110 power cord) into my 220 welding outlet? As far as I can tell there is no simple adapter plug that is a female 110 on one side and a male 220 on the other... so how do I make use of that "autosensing" power supply and plug it into 220? Does Epilog sell a different power cord for this use?

Again, any help is highly appreciated.

[Mike Lassiter]

You would not want to provide power from the 50 amp circuit to the laser by leaving 50 amp breakers in panel. You want to protect the laser against over current. Change the breakers to 15-20 amp double pole according to current requirements of laser. Wiring will be fine as it is already safe for much higher current load.
Autosensing power supply? I cannot see how you could do that just by changing voltage input. I would think you would have to change power cord and where wires connect in laser. Don't see how you could just change plug on end of cord and now have 120 volts on 2 wires where before only on one wire. I caution you to verify with maker before attempting as you could burn up a lot of electronics by doubling supply voltage if you need to change how power cord connects.

[Tony Lenkic]

Here is my suggestion.
1 - Replace 220 volt welder plug with 4 or 6 circuits sub-breaker box. You can get them at home depot.
2 - Branch out from this new breaker box to what ever you need to power up on each dedicated breaker.
3 - You can also wire one plug for 220 volts either 15 or 20 apm depending on specifications for what you need to use it for.

[Mike Lassiter]

Here is my suggestion.
1 - Replace 220 volt welder plug with 4 or 6 circuits sub-breaker box. You can get them at home depot.
2 - Branch out from this new breaker box to what ever you need to power up on each dedicated breaker.
3 - You can also wire one plug for 220 volts either 15 or 20 apm depending on specifications for what you need to use it for.

I hadn't thought about that, but Tony makes a good point about using the 50 amp circuit as a second panel feed. You could transfer some things from your full 20 amp circuit to that. Also keep in mind any time you can run 240 volts rather than 120 you cut amp draw in half. Possibly save you some money on wiring as you can run smaller wire. A 30 amp load requires 10 gauge wire which is quite stiff and heavy whereas you could run 14 gauge wire for a 15 amp 240 circuit which is very flexible and easy to work with. 20 amp circuit uses 12 gauge wire.

[Terry R Peterson]

You would not want to provide power from the 50 amp circuit... .

Mike,
Swapping out the breaker makes good sense (if in fact I'm able to plug into that 220), for the sake of protecting the laser. As far as the auto-sensing power supply, straight from Epilog's website "Auto-switching power supply accommodates 110 to 240 volts, 50 or 60 Hz, single phase, 15 amp AC". When I google more on this, almost all the posts I read are regarding laptops for international travelers. I can see how Epilog using the same engineering could ship a Helix to Europe without re-wiring it... but obviously they would also provide a power cable suitable to that location. All this seems to add up that I can somehow plug my Helix into my 220 (heading the reduced breaker suggestion), if I can find the correct power cable or adapter... which is my question.

Here is my suggestion...

Tony,
If I can't find the means to use that existing 220 outlet, then I like your suggestion to simply turn it into a sub-breaker box.

Thanks Mike & Tony!

I'm going to call Epilog later today to have this discussion with them to see what they have to say about using a Helix on 220. I'll post back their response "straight from the horses mouth".

[Mike Lassiter]

My laser came without a power cord, and I had to buy a cord and plug to go on it. I understand why they don't come with one. Some maybe have hard wired into a disconnect box like an industrial setting and don't have a plug at all. A 20 amp plug wouldn't go into a 15 amp socket (240 volt) so they manufacturer simply doesn't put one on at all - you provide what your situation calls for yourself. Cord length also comes into play here. You can buy premade appliance cords but typically they are short. I purchased the length cord I needed at Home Depot in the correct size wire gauge, and the plug to match the receptacle I wired for the circuit. I believe you have the ability to use 240 as you indicate, you will just have to connect the power cord wires to the correct post or terminals inside the laser. Everything should be clearing explained in set up instructions in manual.

[Gary Hair]

You would not want to provide power from the 50 amp circuit to the laser by leaving 50 amp breakers in panel. You want to protect the laser against over current. Change the breakers to 15-20 amp double pole according to current requirements of laser.

A breaker doesn't limit or control the current to a connected piece of equipment, the breaker is simply a device to disconnect the circuit in case of an overloaded (think short) circuit, it has nothing to do with how much current is flowing to the device you have connected. You could have a 10,000 amp breaker and run the laser without fear of damaging the laser. If you have concerns about over current then you need a line conditioner and/or a surge protector.

[Tony Lenkic]

Gary,

If you install 10 kA breaker on 14 gauge wiring all the wiring will burn before breaker will trip. You should never exceed breaker tripping for wiring and equipment specifications.

[Art Mann]

There may be a serious problem with using the welding connection either as a direct plug-in or as the source of power for a sub-panel. The 240VAC welder receptacle may not provide a neutral connection, but just the two 120VAC legs and a safety ground. If that is the case, then you will see only 2 insulated wires and a bare copper wire going to the receptacle. You must have a neutral wire to run the laser or wire up a sub-panel. It is not acceptable practice to use the ground wire as a neutral wire.

[Mike Lassiter]

A breaker doesn't limit or control the current to a connected piece of equipment, the breaker is simply a device to disconnect the circuit in case of an overloaded (think short) circuit, it has nothing to do with how much current is flowing to the device you have connected. You could have a 10,000 amp breaker and run the laser without fear of damaging the laser. If you have concerns about over current then you need a line conditioner and/or a surge protector.

Gary, that is EXACTLY what a circuit breaker does - it limits the current the circuit can draw that it is protecting. My point was if the laser needs 15 amps and the power cord is sized for 15 amps having a 50 amp breaker to protect it is just stupid. The wires could melt and the breaker would NOT trip unless there was the 50 amps that it was rated for being draw. This would be NO protection basically for the circuit wiring. Normally in disconnect boxes you don't have a breaker at the source, it is a disconnect switch only. Could have fuses inside the disconnect box, but would still be protected by a breaker at the power distribution panel. After all you want the whole circuit protected against short circuit overloads not just between the disconnect and the device.

[Art Mann]

With regard to plugging in a 15 or 20 amp load to a circuit protected by a 30A breaker, there is no safety issue. As someone already said, the breaker is ther to prevent a house fire - not protect a piece of equipment. If there is a fault in the laser, then even 1 amp or less may be enough to thoroughly destroy the electronics. On the other hand, if there is something close to a dead short, then there is no practical difference between a 20A and 30A breaker because you will trip the breaker either way. Breakers that don't protect the device plugged into it are commonplace in any normal house wiring. Consider this. Most houses have table lamps plugged in to either a 15 or 20 amp breaker circuit. If the 18 AWG wire were to conduct anything like the 15 or 20 amps for which it is protected, it would eventually get hot enough to melt the insulation. The same is true of TV sets and other appliances. On the other hand, there is no problem with replacing the breaker with a 15 or 20 amp one if it makes you feel better about it.

[Mike Lassiter]

The difference in what we are discussing is as mentioned you size the breakers for the size wire of the circuit. While you are correct you do power multiple 120 volt devices (outlets and lights) on 1 breaker I have NEVER saw multiple devices on 240 volts in non commercial applications. In factories possibly, not residential applications. I doubt electrical code allows it, but not speaking with authority as I don't know code.
Water heaters on circuit by itself. Stove likewise, clothes dryer likewise. Each circuit has a specific current draw and everything sized accordingly.
You just couldn't put everything on one 240 circuit as you would need 100 amp rated wire to everything. You cannot run wire rated for less current that the circuit breaker protecting it, I do know this.
So would you WANT everything in your house that is connected on 240 volts to all be on single breaker? Would it be cost effectively? No

[Ronald Erickson]

It has already been mentioned a few times, but I wanted to chip in: Circuit breakers are there to protect the house wiring only. They are not there to protect anything that is plugged into the circuit. (Of course I'm talking about normal breakers and not Arc Fault breakers or GFCI breakers.) If the breaker is sized appropriately to the wire used to form the circuit, the breaker will trip before too much current can pass through the wire and cause overheating (aka fire hazard; we don't want "toaster wires" in our walls).

The breaker is not designed to protect the device that is plugged into it from internal overcurrent. The manufacturer of the device is responsible for protecting the device. That's why some devices have built in fuses or thermal switches.

[Art Mann]

Wiring multiple 240VAC outlets on a single breaker is fairly common. In fact, I did it in my shop and the wiring inspector had no objections to it. The only drawback to doing it that way is if you happen to try to use two machines at once, then the breaker will trip. The same is true of 120VAC if you plug in two 1500W space heaters at once. The whole idea of breakers is to protect the structural wiring. That protection stops at the receptacle. What you plug in to the outlet is your responsibility to protect. It is certainly possible to attempt to protect machines and appliances using a downsized breaker, but the chances of actually preventing a fire or destruction of equipment by doing so is very low. As I already said, it takes very little current to destroy electronics under failure conditions. On the other hand, the difference between 20A and 50A is very small when you are talking about shorting conditions. You can trip a 50A breaker by shorting with a single strand of 22 gauge hookup wire. You could probably do it with 30 gauge wire wrap wire, though I haven't tried it.

Edit: Here is another fact about breakers that is worth mentioning. The speed at which they open up is highly dependent on the amount of over-current. A typical 20 or 50 amp breaker will conduct twice the rated current for 25 or 30 seconds and 10 times rated current for 3 or 4 seconds. If you have a problem with your machine and it is drawing that kind of current, then it is probably already dead by the time the circuit breaker opens up.

[Ronald Erickson]

One thing not mentioned is that your welder circuit is most likely a straight 240v circuit that uses 2 hots and a ground with NO NEUTRAL wire. If you don't have a neutral wire, you are not going to be able to convert the outlet into a subpanel without pulling another wire.

How many wires do you have at the outlet? Three (black, white (remarked as black or red), and ground) or four (black, red, white (not connected), and ground)?