[OP]
Member
I just got notice of my power company's upcoming rate hike. It'll be 10% this year. This coincides with the outlawing of incandescent bulbs at the first of the year. Now I get the pleasure of not only having to pay a lot more for bulbs, but any savings that the new bulbs create is offset by another rate hike. I'm sure all parties meant well, but....
Yes, I'm venting.
Member
I think the incandescent light bulb mandate has been either delayed or repealed.
John
Member
Prices are starting to come down on LED and CFL bulbs. Put in LEDs and you may not have to replace them for a looooong time.
I picked up some 40 watt equivalent LED bulbs that only use 3 watts. Makes a big difference in a 9 bulb light fixture.
Contributor
I don't think the light bulb police are going to come to your house and arrest you for using incandescents (just yet anyway)
Contributor
Pfft!
I'm still fighting a skirmish w/my Kohler water waster - five-flush-special...
The bulb police would be a welcome diversion.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon
Contributor
Get a Toto low flush toilet. Works very well.Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Almost sounds like the mandated MPG rules for cars. The constantly tell us that we need to save gas, conserve, buy a fuel efficient car. What happens? We use less fuel, but the oil companies expect to make a certain amount of money per yer, no matter what. They boost prices. And another effect is because we use less fuel there are less taxes paid and the road maintenance that comes from these taxes are depleted.
I have noticed that anytime they tell you to save something by reducing use, the price of that something will go up.
I replaced all my bulbs in my house with CFL's and then the power company boosted their rates. Net zero. Well, negative because I had to buy the bulbs.
Contributor
Power companies in many states are in the unique position of getting a guaranteed return on equity. Rather than cut costs when demand drops like most companies have to do they just apply to the state to raise rates because they aren't making enough money.
Government laws that require power companies to close coal powered electric plants and replace them with wind and solar is also causing rates to go up. Coal is generally the cheapest way to produce power.
Contributor
Actually, the conversion is from coal to natural gas most of the time. It's pretty impossible to replace a standard fossil fuel power generating station with wind and solar.
Also, coal may be the cheapest way to produce power but it has a lot of external issues, one of which is that it produces the most greenhouse gas. And unless the plant is equipped with the latest and greatest scrubbers, it also puts out a lot of sulfur that comes back to earth as acid rain.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Contributor
The state of Minnesota is requiring power companies to get 20% to 25% of their electricity from renewable sources while at the same time requiring coal plants to close or convert to natural gas. This is causing power prices to increase. Coal may not be the best option for generating power, but it is usually the cheapest and it works works 24/7 unlike wind or solar. Personally, I hate using natural gas for power as it will eventually cause natural gas prices to rise and therefore cause my heating costs to rise.
Contributor
California is also requiring the electric companies to get a certain percentage of their power from renewable sources but that's different than closing a coal fired plant and replacing it with wind or solar. It should be obvious that a fossil fueled plant cannot be replaced by wind or solar because of the irregular nature of those two technologies.
Wind and solar are mostly used for peak loading. For example, the highest demand for electricity is in the middle of the day, exactly when solar is producing the most power.
When thinking about power generation, it's important to think beyond ourselves. Natural gas produces less greenhouse gases than coal (and a lot less acid rain). Solar and wind turbines don't produce any greenhouse gas, beyond what it takes to manufacture them. If we don't do something to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases, we may not have much of a world to pass to our children and grandchildren.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
I'm pretty sure hydro-electric is the least expensive power. The problem with hydro is every river that could be damed already has been. The Yellowstone River is the exception being the longest un-damed river in the US and it never will be given the environmental impact and other objections,
After harnessing all the rivers we still need much more power.
Contributor
If you follow the price of crude oil, you'll see that as demand falls, the price per barrel falls. When the recession hit, the usage of oil declined and the price of a barrel of oil declined. As the economies in the world have recovered, usage of oil has increased and the price of a barrel of oil has increased.
The price of a barrel of oil is also affected by the availability of oil. When there's unrest in the middle east, and fear that one or more sources will be cut off, the price of a barrel of oil increases. OPEC tries to control the availability of oil, and thus maintain a certain price level, but it's been like herding cats. Almost all the members cheat.
While oil companies wish that they had absolute pricing power, they are blown by the winds of the economy and the geopolitical situation. They respond rather than lead as far as pricing goes.
Mike
[The price of gasoline is affected by the price of a barrel of oil but also by refining capacity. Here in California we have spikes in gas prices if something happens to one of the local refineries (such as a fire, or a shutdown for maintenance, etc.). It's all supply and demand.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 12-14-2013 at 12:04 AM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
*** threadjack *** Mike is right. Toto's aren't cheap but they will be the best and last you ever buy.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
[OP]
Member
My original vent was partially because the rate hike negligates savings. I did the calculations, and assuming that there will be no more rate increases (ha, they are annual), the led's have a 39 month break even. I don't intend to use some of these fixtures that long, so what then?
Everything that Americans do that actually makes something is simply the conversion of energy to matter. Be it crops in my case, or cars. When the price of energy goes up, guess what happens. To make it worse, when the price of energy is increased not by market forces, but rather by social engineering, well meaning short sighted idiots tend to really mess things up.
When my farm and home is forced to replace the seriously, 1000's of perfectly adequate bulbs with something else, it also makes another problem. I don't need a 25,000 hour light bulb on a center pivot that i'm sure a hail storm will destroy in several years. Thats wasting money, and it pisses me off that I am now forced too.
Frank, I'm using your approach, but we shouldn't have too.
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