Light bulb insanity

[Dan Hintz]

The mercury is released into the air and dissipates, same as it does in nature. Remember the mercury is a vapor, not a solid, so if the bulb is broken, within 5 minutes or so the vapor is "gone".

Uhm, say wha?

Mercury's boiling point at standard pressure is nearly 700F... it's going to stay a liquid in the dump for a looooong time.

[Phil Thien]

Uhm, say wha?

Mercury's boiling point at standard pressure is nearly 700F... it's going to stay a liquid in the dump for a looooong time.

I thought CFL bulbs contained mostly mercury VAPOR, I don't think there is much solid mercury in them.

[Dan Hintz]

I thought CFL bulbs contained mostly mercury VAPOR, I don't think there is much solid mercury in them.

If you've ever seen them manufacture a bulb, before the final sealing it passes along to the "mercury addition" spout... a single drop of mercury (liquid form) is dropped into the tube. The next step is insertion of electrodes/sealing while a vacuum is pulled.

The mercury turns to vapor as the vacuum is pulled (and as the bulb warms). Ever seen a bulb slooooowly get brighter when it's cold out? The mercury has condensed into bigger drops and needs to re-disperse into more of a viable vapor. This is the starter's job. But turning off the bulb allows it to condense back a little (particularly if cold). Once the bulb is broken, however, it's back to atmospheric pressure and vapor goes back to liquid (though it will be well coated throughout the bulb in very fine droplets by this point, not one sub-pea-sized blob).

[Jeff Nicol]

Scientists overwhelmingly disagree with the quote above.

Jon, Scientists is a word to describe anyone who uses many different things to come up with a theory, prediction, thought, idea and so on. So that means that there are many millions of different opinions, thoughts, theories, dreams, lies, calculations and on and on. The thing is that there will always be those who claim to be scientists who will create an equation that will come up with a scenario that will fit whatever is needed by the one who is paying them the most money. These are not scientists but greedy highly educated shills for hire with no morals, values, or problems lying for the almighty dollar. The proof of this is all the so called "Climate Scientists" from East Anglia who fudged the numbers and data to create all the garbage that good old Al Gore based all of his propaganda on and by the way made HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ using all that bogus data. This is all truth because the guys who perpetrated the lies admitted to it and all of their e-mails were leaked to prove they lied. Why is this always forgotten when any of this is brought up about climate this, climate that Global this and GLobal that! WHY???? because it does not fit the narrative of those who have made all the money off the mis-information.

This all was done in the 70's with the gas crisis, but then it was going to be a new "ICE AGE" and all the predictions were so grim and scary for the world and guess what.............................NONE OF IT CAME TRUE! It takes just a little bit of common sense to see that if man was truly responsible for some impending catostrophic situation, we meaning all humans and especially those who have been predicting massive destruction, would be doing something of EPIC proportions to stop the very near in the future destruction of the planet. But of course this is not happening and never will, because if there is still money to be made, there will be new and more evil problems created by whatever "SCIENTISTS" at the time are willing to sell their souls for money to make sure someone can be blamed for something that is not real or possible.

This means that the truth is MAN IS JUST A SPECK OF DUST IN THE BIG SCEME OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE GLOBAL CLIMATE. Because if it was at all possible to control the weather, earth quakes, volcanoes, all natural occurances of the world, we would be doing right now, because of course............THERE WOULD BE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS TO BE MADE IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. So go out and do your own research on all types of things, and make sure to not go to anyplace that is affiliated with any government agencies, and use your own good sense to make a judgement of your own. The truth has no agenda, but ideology does and facts are easy but lies will always show them selves eventually, because the facts will prove the lies are what they are.

Follow the money and you will find the creators of epic potential global destruction that will be blamed on humans, for no other reason than control, greed and power. Life is hard enough without trying to make everything dangerous when it is not.

[Phil Thien]

If you've ever seen them manufacture a bulb, before the final sealing it passes along to the "mercury addition" spout... a single drop of mercury (liquid form) is dropped into the tube. The next step is insertion of electrodes/sealing while a vacuum is pulled.

The mercury turns to vapor as the vacuum is pulled (and as the bulb warms). Ever seen a bulb slooooowly get brighter when it's cold out? The mercury has condensed into bigger drops and needs to re-disperse into more of a viable vapor. This is the starter's job. But turning off the bulb allows it to condense back a little (particularly if cold). Once the bulb is broken, however, it's back to atmospheric pressure and vapor goes back to liquid (though it will be well coated throughout the bulb in very fine droplets by this point, not one sub-pea-sized blob).

Then why do "they" tell you to ventilate a room (to remove mercury vapor) in which a CFM bulb has been broken?

This article states that gaseous mercury is what is used in fluorescent bulbs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

I'm not saying they aren't adding a tiny bit of elemental mercury, but I think there is more reactive gaseous mercury. In several articles they are differentiating between powdered mercury and gaseous mercury, so the gaseous mercury can't just be from pulling a vacuum, can it?

[Leo Graywacz]

Because if it was at all possible to control the weather, earth quakes, volcanoes, all natural occurances of the world, we would be doing right now, because of course............THERE WOULD BE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS TO BE MADE IF IT WERE POSSIBLE.

Ding ding ding.

So, you say Johnie is having a party of the 5th of July in Kansas City? And what's the temperature that you would like? Would you like a nice gently breeze from the north to keep the insects at bay to ma'am? For only $125 we could have that included in your weather manipulation party package. Yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. OK. It's all setup. We'll have a nice 78 degree day, humidity will be low, a few clouds will pass by in the middle of the day and the breeze won't go over 7MPH. Will that be Visa or Mastercard.

[Pat Barry]

Jon, Scientists is a word to describe anyone who uses many different things to come up with a theory, prediction, thought, idea and so on. So that means that there are many millions of different opinions, thoughts, theories, dreams, lies, calculations and on and on. The thing is that there will always be those who claim to be scientists who will create an equation that will come up with a scenario that will fit whatever is needed by the one who is paying them the most money. These are not scientists but greedy highly educated shills for hire with no morals, values, or problems lying for the almighty dollar. The proof of this is all the so called "Climate Scientists" from East Anglia who fudged the numbers and data to create all the garbage that good old Al Gore based all of his propaganda on and by the way made HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ using all that bogus data. This is all truth because the guys who perpetrated the lies admitted to it and all of their e-mails were leaked to prove they lied. Why is this always forgotten when any of this is brought up about climate this, climate that Global this and GLobal that! WHY???? because it does not fit the narrative of those who have made all the money off the mis-information.

This all was done in the 70's with the gas crisis, but then it was going to be a new "ICE AGE" and all the predictions were so grim and scary for the world and guess what.............................NONE OF IT CAME TRUE! It takes just a little bit of common sense to see that if man was truly responsible for some impending catostrophic situation, we meaning all humans and especially those who have been predicting massive destruction, would be doing something of EPIC proportions to stop the very near in the future destruction of the planet. But of course this is not happening and never will, because if there is still money to be made, there will be new and more evil problems created by whatever "SCIENTISTS" at the time are willing to sell their souls for money to make sure someone can be blamed for something that is not real or possible.

This means that the truth is MAN IS JUST A SPECK OF DUST IN THE BIG SCEME OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE GLOBAL CLIMATE. Because if it was at all possible to control the weather, earth quakes, volcanoes, all natural occurances of the world, we would be doing right now, because of course............THERE WOULD BE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS TO BE MADE IF IT WERE POSSIBLE. So go out and do your own research on all types of things, and make sure to not go to anyplace that is affiliated with any government agencies, and use your own good sense to make a judgement of your own. The truth has no agenda, but ideology does and facts are easy but lies will always show them selves eventually, because the facts will prove the lies are what they are.

Follow the money and you will find the creators of epic potential global destruction that will be blamed on humans, for no other reason than control, greed and power. Life is hard enough without trying to make everything dangerous when it is not.

Not really sure that I follow the 'logic' in these comments. Seems very extreme. It doesn't take much to recognize that people do affect the environment even though they be small specks in the big scheme of things. Just take a look for the clear blue skies in Bejing or LA for that matter and explain how come the clear blue sky is not to be found. Now tell yourself that there aren't side-effects from this that we can't yet understand. Sorry, but extremism comes in many forms.

[Jon Nuckles]

Jeff,
If you "follow the money," you are not likely to end up at the doorstep of many scientists. You are much more likely to end up at the gates of an oil company or another "person" making money by the burning of fossil fuels.
Jon

[Jeff Erbele]

I wish they would bring back the 5 gallon flush toilet !

You just wasted a wish

I have a 1.6 gal water saver that acts like a 5 gal; except that I have to use a plunger and push the flush lever 3 or 4 times

[Jeff Erbele]

Jeff, it's an indicator light that lets you know when the timer that runs the end tower is on. Pivots are muddy, and it saves you a mile of slogging through mud at night if you can see that the circuit is working without physically driving to the pivot.

Steve, thanks for explaining that. I grew up on dry-land farming/ranching in south central ND. Most of the land is rolling hills, unsuitable for a center pivot system, although there were some nearby. Plus we had enough rocks to contend with. That was before no-till farming. Any tillage and frost replenished the rocks even if you picked them. Later we had two generations of rock pickers. Today my brother uses a roller; you push them back in the soil instead of trying to pick'em.
In the bigger picture I'm not sure what the aquifer situation and permitting is there. We never had to wory about it.

My guess is you draw from the Ogallala aquifer. That outlook is alarming if not scary. ...back to light bulbs

[Jeff Erbele]

...
We all need to use less of the earth's resources.

Mike

[If you really want to cut your electricity bill, install solar. My annual electricity bill is zero or negative, but even if you cut your draw from the electric company in half, you will generally save a lot of money because of the higher cost of electricity for greater usage (if you have tiered rates in your location).]

Amen to that, o use it smarter and stop wasting it. In the Denver metro area we have Water Cops which is a good thing. Generally they take a good approach to offenders and educate first, but they can and do write citations to repeat and blatant offenders.

The recent state legalization of medical marijuana and as of January first recreational use has caused a HUGE increase in power consumption and grean house gases. I forget the exact statistics but something like adding 40,000 motor vehicles to the highways and Excel Energy experienced a 25% increase in electrical sales due to warehouse pot growers. Big warehouses and lots of them with grow lights and indoor irrigation. It is a huge new industry; one many of us are not pleased about.

We have a solar system and I can attest to your comments, except Excel Energy will not approve a system that generates a loss to them and a financial gain to the metered account. In other words they do not want to write checks at the end of the year for excess power generated from consumers' solar systems. Further, Excel is about the only utility company in the Denver Metro and surronding area that will work with consumers on solar. For use it was a good deal when we went solar about 3 years ago. It was better for those that did earlier and worse for those that converted later.
One of the perks was our rates were locked for life. The cost per Kw will never increase.

I don't know what the rules will be when our new house is complete later this year, but we are sold on solar. Solar works here (makes sense) and most places clear to California, but that is not the case in many places going the other direction; at least not yet.

It is interesting to note, before I was born, before the rural electric cooperatives, maybe in the 1920's - 1930's my Dad and Grandfather had a wind charger on their farm in ND. It was a 32 volt system with a lead-acid battery bank in the cellar under the house. Dad said the batteries were in glass jars. It was pretty hi-tech in the day and not everybody had such a thing but some had.

[Jason Roehl]

I thought CFL bulbs contained mostly mercury VAPOR, I don't think there is much solid mercury in them.

I think we need to check our terms here. A substance in gaseous form will be a bunch of individual molecules floating around, separated by some distance. A VAPOR is not gaseous--it is a bunch of tiny droplets floating around, but those droplets are 2 or more molecules. Mercury is a much-heavier-than-air liquid at room temperature, so any mercury in a light bulb, whether it's gas or vapor, will fall to the floor when the bulb is broken. The only exception would be if there's enough of an electric or magnetic field acting on the droplets to keep them suspended in the air, but I doubt that is the case.

For a real-world comparison between a gas and vapor, look at your tea kettle when it's boiling. That stuff you see slowly floating through the air is vapor--a bunch of multi-molecule droplets. Now, look at right where the steam is exiting the small hole in the tea kettle cap--it's perfectly clear there, probably for 1/8-1/4". That's water in it's single-molecule, gaseous form. When it cools below the boiling point, it forms the droplets, which is the "steam" you see. (Thanks, Mr. Wizard!)

[Phil Thien]

I think we need to check our terms here. A substance in gaseous form will be a bunch of individual molecules floating around, separated by some distance. A VAPOR is not gaseous--it is a bunch of tiny droplets floating around, but those droplets are 2 or more molecules...

Wikipedia:
A vapor (U.S spelling) or vapour (British spelling) is a substance in the gas phase at a temperature lower than its critical point.^[1

It seems Dan is right, that CFL's contain mercury vapor (elemental mercury made into a vapor by pulling a vacuum). And in doing so, they've made the mercury very dispersive, just like the sub-micron dust in our shops. So that is why it is important to ventilate a room where a CFL bulb has broken.

That is obviously a giant simplification because I still read of the various forms of mercury in bulbs, but I think it is pretty accurate.

[Ralph Sprang]

A substance in gaseous form will be a bunch of individual molecules floating around, separated by some distance. A VAPOR is not gaseous--it is a bunch of tiny droplets floating around, but those droplets are 2 or more molecules.

This is more of a semantics argument. A vapor is simply the transition phase from all liquid to all gas, and therefore a vapor contains both solids and gas. It's common for gas to occur in molecules of two atoms, so your "droplets" are solids, not gas, while the two atom molecules are gas.

For a real-world comparison between a gas and vapor, look at your tea kettle when it's boiling. That stuff you see slowly floating through the air is vapor--a bunch of multi-molecule droplets. Now, look at right where the steam is exiting the small hole in the tea kettle cap--it's perfectly clear there, probably for 1/8-1/4". That's water in it's single-molecule, gaseous form. When it cools below the boiling point, it forms the droplets, which is the "steam" you see.

The vapor will occur on the surface of the water in the pot, at the interface between liquid and gas. The visible "steam" in the air is gas.

We will have real data for an example in another day or two - someone broke a CFL and I decided to measure the mercury. Initial results suggest that essentially all the mercury dissipated as gas, but I should have the chromatography results back in another day or two, and then we will know.

[John Coloccia]

FWIW, the ban has been effective in Australia for a while, and the results are in. Energy usage has gone UP. Search around and read for yourself why. The incandescent ban is a complete failure in every possible sense, except for the manufacturers that have admitted CFLs and LED lighting are far more profitable for them.