Gees, I am gone for 2 days and you all are busy

[Scott Coffelt]

I had to go to Chicago for work, gone two whole days and all these posts to be read. Man, I'll never catch up.

Funny thing is, I didn't see any woodworking stores on Michigan Ave, what's up with that? They have everything else, thought for sure i'd see a nice Minimax or Felder store, since them is in the same class as the other stores on Michigan Ave.

I did get to have a great dinner at Capital Grill.

The best part of the trip was also the worst, I flew home last night next to a soldier coming home. He spent 18 months over there and was coming home on medical discharge due to some growth on his neck. It was a sobering conversation.

Now for the bad part, after being delayed for a life time we left Chicago for KC, after 4 bailed attempts to land, we made it down on the 5th. A nasty storm wrecked havoc on the flight, worst I've ever experienced. We had landing gear down and was approaching fast only to hit high wind shear... let's just say there was some folks needing a change of under garments... quick pull back on the trusters and high into the air.

Anyways, back safe and hoping to get back in the shop.

[Ray Bersch]

Scott,
I know what you mean about the posts - I have been down for awhile and only able to pop up every now and then to review the site, can't catch up with it all so I just browse - seems that the world goes on, doesn't it?

I can't help but comment about your flight home. As an instrument rated private pilot with almost 30 years of flying I would have been jumping at the pilot's door on this trip. Five approaches with four misses at the same airport is a sign of unsafe flying - it sounds to me that the pilot had a disease we describe as "get homeitis". It is very often fatal to all on board. I am sure you were flying a local or comuter airline and I wonder if it even had a national affiliation. It also sounds like there were thunderstorms in the area and that the approaches were made during or near active thunderstorms. You and all aboard are very lucky people. Had I been on that flight, I would have protested loudly after the second missed approach and been down right unreasonable on the forth approach.

If this was a commuter line I suggest you write to the company and tell them of your displeasure. I would even consider making a complaint to the FAA. If this was a corporate flight, I would contact the flight safety department and discuss it with the highest executive that you can get hold of. In either case, an investigation of the circumstances of the flight should be undertaken and you should be assured that such practices are not approved by the company. If you don't get such assurances then I would refuse to fly with them again.

What should have happened? Whether the first two approach attempts were appropriate is a matter that may be difficult to determine but the flight safety department will likely try to make that determination. After two missed approaches the pilot should have selected an alternate airport or gone off somewhere to hold until the weather cleared. An alternate airport is usually the choice made. By the way, the pilot was required to have named an alternate airport in his flight plan and that airport must have been reachable with the fuel on board, so don't think this caught your guy by surprise.

Now, for commuters and corporate flights you won't find a regulation that says "after two missed approaches you must do so and so." But there will not be one person in aviation who won't raise more than an eyebrow at five approaches (in fact, most will actually gasp.) If you are reluctant to act because you feel the pilot might suffer then I urge you to take action for just that reason. The next time he (or she) may not be so lucky and end up killing a lot of people. What you don't know is if this pilot simply made a mistake that he is already regretting and your complaint my trigger some additional training (and embarrassment) and an additional awareness by him - we are all human. But it also may be that this pilot has had a string of such conduct and that your complaint is the one that gets him out of the industry. Don't even think twice about it.

Ray

[Cecil Arnold]

While not current, I hold a commercial, instrument, multi-enging rating and I completely agree with Ray about reporting the pilot. All pilots have their harry stories about high pucker factor flights, but in retrospect most of us will agree that we were stupid to get into those situations, and five approches are stupid.

[Michael Gabbay]

Not a smart pilot or ATcontroller. I've had one aborted landing and Washington National years ago on a clear day. I think the pilot was look at the sights and not paying too much attention to his approach. I could see the middle of the runway from my aisle seat as we landed! Luckly we pulled up.

At least you arrived intact.....

Mike

[Scott Coffelt]

I was flying SWA, generally I have been pleased with them. The crew was actually out of the next stop, not KC. Anyways, the stroms here last night were horrid. He did annouce that the crew that had arrived to Chicago from KC said the flight was extremely bumpy and therefore, our refreshment service would not occur for safety reasons. The first two attempts didn't seem as hairy as the middle two, the last was fairly smooth considering. Oddly enough, due to the flights being delayed out of Midway, the flight 2 hours behind us landed on the their first attempt right behind us. We actually spoke with folks waiting for the same shuttle buses as us. According to them, their pilot told them they were given a short window to land (only time for 8 planes) and then it was either wait in the air or head somewhere else. I think we arrived prior to the window, then at the last attempt the window opened.

I agree, we really should have stay up for awhile or deverted. Since I was not in the pilots seat, I am not sure if the tower was the one instructing them to land or not. I know I asked him something and he said he had had much worse landings... I can say I hope not to have anything worse than that, and I am pretty comfortable with flying.

Anyways, thanks for the advice, not really meaning to make this a thread about my flight. After talking with the soldier, I can really see how these guys and gals can be screwed up for life. Tramendous amount of stress to be put under, and the treatment from folks not always the best. He was very humble, I tried to get him on the plane first... he politely ask me not to make a big deal out of it. He did say he asked the security guard at the screening place (or somebody like that) to watch his bag so he could get a smoke... they asked if he was in the military, he said he just got out on medical discharge... they said, nope cause your not a soldier anymore.... if I had scene that I would have punched the person. IMHO, He will alwasy be a soldier and a hero, though I don't know him. Dudes been away for 18 months in the middle of the heavy action area.,, and to be treated like that...

[Ray Bersch]

Scott;
Just remember one thing, ONLY the pilot in command makes the decission to anything with the airplane and the controller would never require a pilot to land. That's the rule, that's the law and that is the way every pilot wants it.

I did not mean to ignore your conversation with the soldier - I know it must have been moving, nor did I intend to hijack your thread, however, what you experienced is a very serious situation and, if it were me, I would follow-up on the issue and nothing would change my mind that's how serious a situation I feel this is.

'Nuf said.

Ray

[Bill Lewis]

We had landing gear down and was approaching fast only to hit high wind shear... let's just say there was some folks needing a change of under garments... quick pull back on the thrusters and high into the air.

Anyways, back safe and hoping to get back in the shop.

Man I was on a similar landing in Miami a few years back. Practically skimming across the treetops on final, and then the pilot lays on the throttle and pulls back on the stick. Simultaneously, I think he also brought the flaps up and raised the gear, can't remember for sure. Before you knew it, the view out the window across the aisle was the airport below as the pilot then also put it in to a sharp right bank.
The pilot did a good job on that go-around, never spilled a drink. I'll bet there were even a few people that were unaware of the whole situation. He did get on the horn and let us know about it. Apparently there was another plane on the runway or some other place it shouldn't have been.

[Scott Coffelt]

Perfectly fine... I made it home with clean shorts for me at least.