Life without a table saw

[Keith Hooks]

The BS seems to be a better compliment to hand tool use than the TS. Another thing to consider is that the BS is arguably safer to operate than the TS with less chance of kickback, lower forces involved in the cut, etc. Plus, the bandsaw has a narrower kerf so there's less waste generated.

That said, I have a TS that gets a lot of use and a wimpy little BS that gets very little. And let's me honest, I'm more than a little afraid of my TS It has such big teeth!

[Dave Wright #2]

Zahid,

You have mentioned that you already have a tablesaw, but I don't pick up in your posts if you already have a bandsaw or not.

If you already have a bandsaw: Don't ask us...just do a couple projects without using the tablesaw to see how you like it.

If you do not have a bandsaw: Be careful about this decision. Bandsaws are much less predictable than tablesaws. Ones that are expensive and properly maintained cut fairly well. Bandsaws that are less expensive and/or not kept well tuned are pretty sad tools. A moderately priced tablesaw, on the other hand, works very consistently with very little attention from its owner.

Your work needs to be the guide. The curves in my projects are important to their appearance, but a typical project might have several dozen straight cuts for every curved cut. I would be insane to make the dozens of cuts more difficult just so I could have an easier time with a couple curved ones. I would be better off making the curved cuts with a Sawzall that giving up the tablesaw.

Keep in mind that there's more to a cut than smoothness. Accuracy is vital too. Rip 10 pieces at a good tablesaw and they'll all mic the same size to within a few thousandths of an inch. Rip them at the bandsaw and clean up with handplanes and you'll probably get 10x the variance. Assembly and squareness go a lot better when you're working with consistent stock.

I make these comments despite being a handtool enthusiast. I have plenty of planes and enjoy using them, and my bandsaw gets a reasonable amount of use, but the tablesaw is the center of my shop. Remember that the reason 18th Century woodworkers did not use tablesaws is because tablesaws were not available.

Regards, Dave

[Michael Sloan]

I started out my woodworking life building furniture in my kitchen. I bought a very good, very small bandsaw (Inca 710), a router and router table, and a bunch of hand tools (planes, saws, chisels, etc...).

Then I moved into a tiny house, with a tiny basement shop (maybe 150 square feet), and added a small jointer/planer (250 mm Inca, with tersa blades). I did a lot with this setup.

My shop is now 1/2 of a two car garage, with a full combination machine, MM CU300S (saw, shaper, J/P), lathe, and an MM16 Bandsaw. If my workshop space ever gets smaller, I would go back to the setup with a high quality bandsaw and the small jointer/planer, with the additional of a guided circular saw system. I would not get rid of my bandsaw (tool #1), or my Jointer/Planer (tool #2).

Mike

[Ron Taylor]

In thinking of a response to this thread, I followed one previous poster's advice. I considered my current project which is a relatively simple, by-the-plans router table (Norm's). One particular cut requires 8 identical pieces at something like 3 5/8" X 6 13/32". My table saw didn't even break a sweat. With any other tool in my shop except perhaps the RAS, I'd STILL be trying to get them all the same..... no, I'd still be trying to get the FIRST one right. I can cut decent curves with a hand-held jig-saw... even better, an inexpensive table top scroll saw, but even with a top-of-the-line guide system and a good CS, there is no comparison to the efficiency and accuracy of a decent TS.

Some have mentioned cutting sheets but repetitive dimensioned SMALL pieces is also a major factor.

Just my 2 cents.....

[Jay Knoll]

Hi everyone

Well, from past threads on this subject (including one from your's truely) the repeatability subject comes up as an advantage of the table saw.

Well, depending on your application there are other ways to skin that cat.

I'd rather use my SCMS with a stop to cut multiple narrow pieces -- and I don't have to build a cross cut sled for the TS

Echoing Michaels comments, with my Festool MFT and guiderails I can cut large sheet goods without worrying about kickback, or having some one else help me.

Here's are a couple of links to reviews of the MFT,

http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/festool_mft1.htm

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fest-10.htm

One of the nice things about the MFT is that I can fold it up and put it against the wall when I'm not using it, so it conserves space. Set up with a stop I'm assured that every piece I cut will be the same dimension. I haven't added the ruler that John Lucas did on his table, so setup isn't quite as easy as "dialing in" the dimension on a TS fence. And, you've got to remember which side of the guiderail is the "waste side"! After one mistake, now all my rails have an notation and arrow point to WASTE.

[Timo Christ]

I don't have a bandsaw yet.. but i'm planning to buy one.
Is repeatability really that bad on a big (19") bandsaw with fence + mitre sled?
With well adjusted guides i don't see a theoretical reason why it would be worse than a TS..
Please band saw owners, give us some feedback on this matter thanks!

[Dino Makropoulos]

, but even with a top-of-the-line guide system and a good CS, there is no comparison to the efficiency and accuracy of a decent TS.

Some have mentioned cutting sheets but repetitive dimensioned SMALL pieces is also a major factor.

Just my 2 cents.....

Hi Ron

Your two cents means a lot to woodworking.
This weekend we will post pictures of the EZEZ-Repeato.
With narrow stock capacity down t0 1/4" and repeatability down to zero with min. final product down to 10.000" (yes.ten thousands of an inch)
And all this without moving and resetting the fence.
And without holding the wood either.
We're testing all circular saws from the smallest to the monster 16" Makita.
Results and pictures tomorrow.



































And If you already have a good tablesaw....don't worry.














You can make a nice Smart Table with it.
















Thank you guys for all your help. Without the SMC the Dead Wood Concept was Dead?

Now we can keep our schools open to woodworking and construction trades.

And one side note to my Festoolians Friends. The 10.000" was done with my ATF.
I think the time is right to talk about Better Woodworking.

My best regards to all.
YCF Dino

[Frank Pellow]

Life without a table saw can be very good -as long as you have a GCS+RS (guided circular saw + router system).

[Jim Becker]

I don't have a bandsaw yet.. but i'm planning to buy one.
Is repeatability really that bad on a big (19") bandsaw with fence + mitre sled?
With well adjusted guides i don't see a theoretical reason why it would be worse than a TS..
Please band saw owners, give us some feedback on this matter thanks!

Timo, it can be quite repeatable, but only if you dedicate a blade for straight cutting, such as a carbide tipped blade. That will give you virtually TS repeatability. Blades that are used for scrolling will inherently get "lead" a lot quicker, so keeping even a "regular" blade dedicated for resaw, rip and crosscut is a good idea.

[Tim Sproul]

This weekend we will post pictures of the EZEZ-Repeato.
With narrow stock capacity down t0 1/4" and repeatability down to zero with min.

Well....it is about time!

[Steven Wilson]

I don't have a bandsaw yet.. but i'm planning to buy one.
Is repeatability really that bad on a big (19") bandsaw with fence + mitre sled?
With well adjusted guides i don't see a theoretical reason why it would be worse than a TS..
Please band saw owners, give us some feedback on this matter thanks!

I had a Powermatic 66 tablesaw and a 14" Jet bandsaw. I upgraded the Jet bandsaw to a Minimax MM20 and was able to rip solid stock on the bandsaw (1" carbide blade) as or more accurate than I could with the PM66 tablesaw. The bies fence on the Powermatic is generally too long for accurately ripping solid stock. The Delta unifence, or the fence on my new saw, is better. Sometimes that wood likes to move. A properly tuned bandsaw with a blade of sufficient beam strength can be a very accurate tool for ripping. As for cleaning up bandsaw marks, if you use a rip blade on a tablesaw to rip stock you almost always need to cleanup those marks so I don't really see much difference between using a table saw or bandsaw and then cleaning up. I keep a jointer plane finely tuned just for the purpose and it's only taking a few thou per pass. Besides, you can rip 4" , 6", or 8" thick stock with ease on a bandsaw - try that on a 10" tablesaw. When I was awaiting the arrival of a combo machine I was without my tablesaw for a couple of months. I basically had hand tools, a great bandsaw, and a pumped up lathe to work with. I was still able to get projects done, just needed to use a few different techniques. Yes the tablesaw would have been useful but it wasn't missed too much.

[Timo Christ]

Jim and Steven,
thanks for your feedback!
I am now more confident in my planned BS purchase.
Will definitely keep at least one blade for straight cuts.

[Bob Noles]

I have been contemplating this for a few months. My shop is based in one half of a two car garage. I am not sure I can have both a tablesaw and a bandsaw and still have room to walk around. So how accurate is a bandsaw for ripping? Can I live without a tablesaw. I am a semi neander, in that I try to do as much as I can with hand tools, but things like thickness planing and ripping are best done by machines.

the flexibility of a bandsaw will be good to have but how much would I miss the quick setup dead straight ripping of a tablesaw. I do have a router table, so I can manage the dadoo/groove type stuff.

Zahid,

Since discovering my E-Z GCSS I rarely bring out my folding TS anymore. My TS is not a Mercedes by any means, but it has served me well in the past. I have just added a BS to my shop as of yesterday and I truly believe that there is a day coming that I may consider eliminating my TS altogether. My shop is small (13X17) and all of my large tools are mobile and taken outdoors to actually use when weather permits. My shop merely stores them along the walls for the most part. I do on occassion crank one up inside and use it when the weather is bad, but even with a DC I still hate having to clean up the mess.

Anyhow, I will have to go against the popular vote here and say, yes, I CAN live without a TS. It may take an extra minute or 2 for GCSS set up, but I can get all the accuracy and repitition needed for my purposes out of my E-Z system. I was just looking at another post here today and notice some forthcoming enhancements to that system that appear to make it even more useful. As a neander, you can appreciate the extra patience and time expended in working with wood and tools and I would think that a good GCSS would be no problem in taking the place of a TS.

Each of us works differently and has different needs. This is just my "opinion" and certainly works for mine. I am always looking for better ways to utilize my limited space and a GCSS is one of them for sure.

Now, if I can just figure a better way to store my ply

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Zahid, given your work style, I would think the BS would win easily. That said it sounds like you have no room for tools because of the usual garage infringements. I have a 10x12 metal building on the new house's property. It's not perfect and would need a base (It sits on a slab, now). I'd be happy to donate it to your yard if you could come get it. That way you'd have room for all that other stuff OUTSIDE the garage...er shop.

I'm going to replace the metal building with a shop addition to house the DC, compressor and the automotive tools. We should be moving in around the first of August or so. If you're interested, it's yours for the taking!

Then you could have your BS and TS both....

[Frank Pellow]

... I truly believe that there is a day coming that I may consider eliminating my TS altogether.
...

Good for you Bob! I think that things will work out just fine. The shop at my cabin does not have a table saw and I find that I can get along fine without it (not quite as well, but fine).