Posting work that looks like others'

[Eric Gourieux]

Roger's post about what to turn when you have nothing particular in mind led me to this issue. I have a stack of pictures of turnings that other turners have made that I would like to turn in the future. I might like the shape, a particular curve, balance of the piece, color, whatever. Sometimes, I like the whole piece and set out to turn something like it. A few of my recent turnings have been just that. I've basically "copied" someone else's turning. Because of this, I have been hesitant to post them. There was a recent article in the AAW journal about plagiarizing other's work, and the gist of the article was that nobody owns a particular form.

Has anybody felt this way and hesitated posting a turning that they did?

Would you mind if someone posted something that looked like one of your turnings? Personally, I would be honored. But, that is just me.

Have you avoided posting a turning out of concern that someone will "copy" it?

[Michelle Rich]

I think one should give credit to the person they copied. It wouldn't hurt either, to change a little something & give it your own look.

[Russell Neyman]

Trust me, the turner you're "copying" was following the lead of someone before him/her. It's darn hard to copy something exactly, anyway, given the adjustments you will make for inclusions, blank shape, etcetera. Now, if there's a unique bit of flourish -- a finial, for example -- that you are specifically duplicating, it wouldn't hurt to make an "inspired by" footnote.

I developed a unique "feather finial" using a banksia pod, something I had never seen before, and was flattered when another woodturner used it on one of his pieces. Apparently, he disagreed with some of the details, so he changed them, making it his own.

It's all good in the end.

[Jim Underwood]

It's only plagiarizing if you copy it exactly, and then claim it as your design. When you sell it as your design, then it's especially egregious.

I would never worry about copying while you're learning how to turn a form. Chances are you'll never duplicate it exactly anyway.

It never hurts to give credit for your inspiration, or change it up a little as Michelle points out.

But I wish some folks were just a tad less touchy about the whole subject. It sure puts a damper on new turners trying to learn... We get a little arrogant about "our design". It's difficult to come up with something entirely original. Most of what we have seen has been done uncountable times before...

[Prashun Patel]

I've never felt that way. We should be so lucky to be copied like Nakashima and Maloof. The demand for the originals will always FAR exceed the demand for the copies. In fine art and woodworking, the copies create tremendous marketing and publicity for the originals. In that respect, I think the designer should PAY the copier for the press. I certainly would.

[Brian Kent]

I would love to say, "In this piece I have copied David DeCristoforo and made an 18" stand 1/64" thick."

[David DeCristoforo]

The turning world is, as my wife so rightly pointed out, a "demi-monde", a small world in the true sense of the word. And I have rarely encountered such a strong defensive posture as when it comes to protecting what one sees as one's "signature style". The fact is that this whole issue is one big gray area.

Many of the common techniques can be traced to an individual. Hollow turning, for example. David Ellsworth. Everyone after that is taking off in one way or another on his concept. But there are few who would not be able to identify a hollow form made by, say, John Jordan. His pieces would never be mistaken for Ellsworth pieces. Finials? Cindy Drozda. But who would mistake a Keith burns finial for one of Cindy's? Piercing? Who was the first one to do that? But compare the pieces of Bin Pho, Gordon Pembridge and Richard Kennedy. None of these works would leave any question as to their maker.

You could claim that anyone who glues two pieces of wood together is "copying" someone. I do think it is important to offer credit to another when you use their ideas. One of the most generous people I have encountered in this respect is John Keeton who repeatedly and generously acknowledges the influence of both Cindy Drozda and David Marks. And, while their influence is obvious in John's work, his own unique stamp is unmistakable.

Personally I think we should just enjoy this and not get too caught up in who's "copying" who. I drifted into that myself at one point and it completely destroyed my enjoyment of the work. Directly copying a design and presenting it, knowingly (that's an important distinction), as your own is another thing entirely. And with the turning world being as close knit as it is, you are not likely to get away with it anyway!

[Brian Libby]

The turning world is, as my wife so rightly pointed out, a "demi-monde", a small world in the true sense of the word. And I have rarely encountered such a strong defensive posture as when it comes to protecting what one sees as one's "signature style". The fact is that this whole issue is one big gray area.

Many of the common techniques can be traced to an individual. Hollow turning, for example. David Ellsworth. Everyone after that is taking off in one way or another on his concept. But there are few who would not be able to identify a hollow form made by, say, John Jordan. His pieces would never be mistaken for Ellsworth pieces. Finials? Cindy Drozda. But who would mistake a Keith burns finial for one of Cindy's? Piercing? Who was the first one to do that? But compare the pieces of Bin Pho, Gordon Pembridge and Richard Kennedy. None of these works would leave any question as to their maker.

You could claim that anyone who glues two pieces of wood together is "copying" someone. I do think it is important to offer credit to another when you use their ideas. One of the most generous people I have encountered in this respect is John Keeton who repeatedly and generously acknowledges the influence of both Cindy Drozda and David Marks. And, while their influence is obvious in John's work, his own unique stamp is unmistakable.

Personally I think we should just enjoy this and not get too caught up in who's "copying" who. I drifted into that myself at one point and it completely destroyed my enjoyment of the work. Directly copying a design and presenting it, knowingly (that's an important distinction), as your own is another thing entirely. And with the turning world being as close knit as it is, you are not likely to get away with it anyway!

+1 to what David said!

[Robert Henrickson]

When it comes to turned shapes, there is unlikely to be anything truly new. Although I cannot find the verbatim quote at the moment, Stockdale is said to have complained about oriental potters copying his bowl shape a thousand years ago. He was right. I've spent my professional life working with archaeological pottery from a much of the Near East, dating from 5000 BC down to 150 BC or so. I can cite parallels to a great many shapes I see on turning fora, often from two or three different millennia. Many of the shapes referred to as "Southwest" I have seen, handled, and drawn from Iran, Iraq, or Turkey. Oriental ceramics provide yet another vast range of shape possibilities. Whenever I'm lacking for a idea, I can fall back on what I have studied and use, e.g., an Early Phrygian carinated bowl or a Median ledge-rim drinking cup for inspiration or a takeoff point. Surface treatments and decoration are where there is greater freedom.

[Jim Underwood]

I would love to say, "In this piece I have copied David DeCristoforo and made an 18" stand 1/64" thick."

That made me laugh right out loud.

[Guy Belleman]

I have seen creative and wonderous pieces in galleries, but I find that my work is seldom creative, often just small variations from what I have tried before or seen in the many resources I like to peruse, sometimes combinations of ideas gleaned. I often would like folks to add a little clarity on the techniques they used, or the references they used, or the wood and finish used. I must admit I am enjoying the new Woodturner's Catalog I received that lists simply lists the type of wood used in the display pens. I guess, what I am saying is that often we share a picture of our work but don't always take the extra moments to show the pictures up to that point or provide the explanations to those being nurtured by this common communication place. Give credit where credit is due, but the public ground of our work hardly makes any form sacred, and I actually enjoy someone copying me, as it is a sort respect and flattery, but also it is guiding others in this dwindling field amongst the youth.

[Josh Bowman]

I kind of see forums something like the patent system in that the forum disseminates knowledge and ideas so others can improve, add to or build on. I also feel that most ideas are not unique into themselves. Perhaps the combination of them are but not the idea itself. So as Michelle said, if you copy exactly to learn, you should give credit. Heck......If I could only copy exactly, I'd be tickled to give credit!

[Bill White]

Imitation is the finest form of flattery.
Bill

[Doug Herzberg]

I would love to say, "In this piece I have copied David DeCristoforo and made an 18" stand 1/64" thick."

I have a print of Brian Kent's Southwest collection taped to the window behind my lathe. I've never managed to copy one exactly, but I glance up at it frequently when I'm working on a form like that.

[Eric Gourieux]

I have a print of Brian Kent's Southwest collection taped to the window behind my lathe. I've never managed to copy one exactly, but I glance up at it frequently when I'm working on a form like that.

Well, Brian. There you go!