Clear Vue Cyclone...

[Ole Anderson]

I have tried to steer to Bill’s web site those wanting to get into dust collection, with the caveat to take much of what he says with a grain of salt due to his underlying health issues.

[Matt Mattingley]

I have tried to steer to Bill’s web site those wanting to get into dust collection, with the caveat to take much of what he says with a grain of salt due to his underlying health issues.

I do somewhat agree. The problem is there is so much valuable information that is free (sure donations are excepted) and it is a very reliable source.

Majority of people cannot with stand smoking without some sort of health issue. Fine dust is fine dust. Some wood dust affects people differently.

My main concern was when I was cutting MDF on the table saw, the smoke detectors were going off in my home. If a smoke detector well I was using a 1.5 hp dust collector and or a 6 hp. Ridgid shop vacuum.

The main thing for me was dust being circulated through my home through my HVAC and being distributed on my dining room table. Something about happy wife happy life. I like challenges more than the next guy. I built my DC using Bill Pentz design, but I built my own for that fan/blower. I’m happy how it has turned out and it’s been running flawlessly for about five years. I would put my own built Jobbie (Pentz Clone) up against Clearview any day of the week.

I will invite anybody willing to test it.

Through my non-scientific testing I’m pulling 1200 CFM-ish through 4 inch restriction. I’m only in a 368 square-foot basement shop with 7.5’ceiling and a 5 hp DC. I’m also pulling almost 20 inches of water column with system totally closed. I’m not sure, is this worthy of a bowling ball test??? LOL.

I’ve pulled water column on a totally enclosed 40 in.³ intake from Clearview it pulled a 14 inches of water column and was pulling 14 A at the motor. Mine with the exact same design and 40 in.³ pulls 20 inches water column with 16A. The only difference should be the blower. Mine is 17 1/4 inches diameter and homemade.

Does anybody have good pictures what Clearview sent you for a blower. Who is the blower made by? What was the blower made out of? Stainless steel? What was the weight of the blower? Was it a material handling blower, straight blades, backwards curved blades, material handling blades, aluminum, cast-iron……

Mine is 2 stage blower and fan design, with a five horse power motor.
B28DBC2E-18BC-4305-8614-5E3BB2B54913.jpgBA34DA97-9263-43C2-B1FF-23FCA0FBFE6B.jpg5737480D-5364-44B4-BEF8-C69086A8C54F.jpgF4E29CCC-ED38-49DA-B7C5-0E8BFB5AB8F9.jpgB45D6869-6E34-4E1D-BEF0-0CB86F4F366E.jpg7C46195B-40C6-4410-AAA4-862765D55CA9.jpg

[John K Jordan]

...
Does anybody have good pictures what Clearview sent you for a blower. Who is the blower made by? What was the blower made out of? Stainless steel? What was the weight of the blower? Was it a material handling blower, straight blades, backwards curved blades, material handling blades, aluminum, cast-iron……

No photo, this on their web site, their smaller 15" impeller. With some dimensions:
https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/sup...-impeller.html
Also, impeller installation videos on this page
https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/con...y-instructions

I installed my years ago, some type of steel, vanes curved backwards, very heavy, perfectly balanced.

[Carl Beckett]

Fact is, all medicine is 'statistical'. Health risks are a distribution and impacted by so many factors there is no one exactly 'right' answer (just because you smoke does not guarantee you to get cancer, but it does increase the risk of it!).

This makes it a very very difficult thing to generalize, and also difficult to educate about. Because there is ALWAYs an exception to the general effect that someone will put out there to make it invalid.

Matt, I will see if I have pictures of my clearvue impeller. As I remember it was a straight vaned impeller and 15" diameter. As you know, there is more to design than diameter including vane shapes and plenum/volute shapes/clearances. Adding stages is another approach which usually comes with more complexity (my whole house vac is a three stage blower from Ametek on a miniature cyclone - these units have been around forever - I am certain it would work well for dust collection where relatively low CFM would work. But I chose to buy something already built (and actually progressed through 4 levels of dust collector upgrades, and will likely do more some day, but the clearvue was defintely superior to my previous units using cloth bags or undersized motor/impeller)

'Most' mass produced industrial designs are a tradeoff between what can be made cheaply, and what works good enough. These are both subjective and to some extent is where the art of product design enters. And with many PPE (personal protective equipment), the best design is the one that gets 'used'. There are many here using no dust collection. Or using a small unit with cloth bag filters. etc etc.

Certainly a custom design and fabrication 'should' work better than a mass produced product. It sounds like you were able to build something that works great. Nicely done.

I have learned a LOT from reading Pentz's website. I have learned a LOT by reading threads here. My dust collection is still not as great as I would ideally like, but its improving over the years. Considering how many posts there are these days on the topic, I would say awareness has definitely increased about the long term health concerns to breathing dust. That is a good thing. Even if there are no 'exact' answers on what is required.

Am just saying to a large degree, this topic has philosophical element so there is never going to be a consensus on a specific approach. But I wholeheartedly am behind your point that breathing foreign particles into the lungs cannot be a good thing.

(nice, John sent the link. Mine is also several years old so design details may have changed since then)

[John Kee]

Matt I don't know who makes the blower for Clearvue now but 2007 when Ed Morgano was the owner, they used Bill P design and it was welded steel with slightly curved blades. The blower was made in house according to a conversation I had with Ed and based on keeping the amp draw numbers in line with motor operation. The unit I had came with the 15" version designed for running with 6" ducts and that's where my test numbers came from. The CVmax has the 16" impeller and was designed for 8" main ducts. Your fan being homemade and larger than the Clearvue and most other DC offerings is an unknown and basically an apples to oranges comparison. For collectors using your size of impeller you have to look at the 10 to 15hp units with recommended 12"+ ducting.

[Peter Christensen]

Matt your fan is an approximation of the compressor fan of a turbo supercharger. That may be why it moves more air than the traditional DC fan which is a material handling fan. The DC fan can handle the chips and shavings encountered in a wood shop that would likely clog up yours, neither of which wouldn't really mater with a good cyclone in front removing the dust and shavings. Since the need to handle shavings and bits of wood shouldn't be needed in a properly designed cyclone system refinement of fans similar to yours could either reduce the size needed or be quieter if bigger by turning slower. Possibly an 18" to 20" fan turning at 1725rpm instead of a 16" at 3450rpm for example.

[Peter Christensen]

Matt here is the picture and some dimensions of the CV-Max impeller bought about a year and a half ago. It is made of steel painted black, blades are 0.120" thick, welded to the back plate that is 0.187" thick, tack welded on one edge of the blade with a full weld on the other. Weight is 11 pounds and there are two spots on the back not shown in the pictures where they drilled to balance it. Does this satisfy your curiosity?

[Matt Mattingley]

Thanks Peter. This makes better sense now. Mathematically I calculated your weight and it should be closer to 15.2 pounds. Their fan it is 4 inches tall including the back plate,but The blower housing is 6.625 tall (from their website). Assuming the top and bottom of the blower is made from 0.0625 material, this would leave almost 2 1/2 inches of airgap.

My blower housing is 4 3/4 inches tall. I used 1/4 thick steel plate for the top and bottom of blower. So the inside space is only a tad bit bigger than 4 1/4 inches. My blower has a 4 inch tall blades(0.042 thick) and a 0.0625 backplate. So I roughly have .100” top and bottom clearance. A little less clearance for free flowing air I guess. Mine is a 17 1/4 inch fan in Bill’s 16 inch design. I only have about 5/16 clearance at that tight corner of the exhaust. I don’t know what that corner is called. I balanced mine staticly by grinding a little bit off the outside diameter of the back plate. My blower all said and done weight just over 9.5 pounds.
CEC34F15-3506-400B-A40B-1C6070F04821.jpg

[Malcolm McLeod]

Matt,
Intriguing design, and certainly impressive performance numbers.

I'm curious about your fan. Have you tried any tests with the center (smaller) vanes removed? If this is even possible? (Don't know if you're still in the mood to test, but might be interesting.)

I am not a fan designer, but had some dimly-remembered aerodynamics classes, so please take this lightly. My suspicion is that the small, high angle of attack vanes will have limited gains. They may even be limiting the free flow of incoming air to the entire 'main' blade surface..?? It looks a bit like you're shooting for a scroll-type impeller?

If I had to put money on it, I'd bet most of your performance advantage comes from the tight(er) clearances of the impeller relative to the housing/plenum, and larger diameter (::faster blade tip speeds). Commercial suppliers allow for much higher tolerances for all the appropriate reasons: passing debris, no buildup of 'string', liability, etc..

Certainly the cyclone is great insurance, but the impact of a 'chunk' in your build could be ruinous, if not catastrophic.

(Apologies if this has been covered; I didn't review the entire thread.)

[Peter Christensen]

Reply to post #158.

Bathroom scale said 5 kilograms and I converted it to pounds because I know how fast the American brain shuts down with mention of anything metric. Except maybe when it comes to drugs. The scale likely has an error at either end of it's ranges so it may very well be higher.

The impeller housing gap is 5 1/2" so the air gap is 1 1/2". The tip to housing gap at the exhaust corner is in the 1 1/4" ballpark range. The top and bottom are made of 3/4" material.

There is a couple shops in town the balance fans and motors of all sizes and I thought since I want to overspeed it a little I would have one of them dynamically balance it. Cost dependant naturally.

[David Koehler]

So let’s get to the real bits and pieces. Does Clearview really deliver what they’re bragging about??? I’ve personally tested a clear view system and it was not what I would consider real #’s. I have not tested the new Clearview system. But I think Clearview is being a little shady on their numbers too but they’re being more upfront than any other! This is just my observation....

I’m pretty sure it’s a competitive market.

I don't have actual numbers, but I have a CVmax Clearvue in my 60'x40' shop. 8" mains with 6" drops, no filter;ducted outside.
I have a drill press station on the far side of my shop with a 4" hose coming off of the 6" drop, and if that's the only blast gate open and I'm not careful it will suck a full size (25') tape measure up the hose if I set it anywhere close. I'm very impressed and happy with my Clearvue.

[Peter Christensen]

That’s an interesting way to “measure” the performance of a dust collection system.

[David Koehler]

LOL. It is. Don't ask me how I know.
I once had to go through about 20 feet of ducting to retrieve my table saw arbor nut that I dropped in the base of the table saw while the collection system was on!

[Matt Mattingley]

Again thank you Peter. Reply to post #160. I guess you just bought the fan not the CV Max? I did add wait in for the split collar. As I did add in 2 pounds for my aluminum hub. And I took a total measurement of 6 inches long for each blade. I used to wait calculation of 0.283333333 per cubic inch of metal.

When I designed this I wanted a pyramid cone at the top. I calculated for the sheer strength of the quarter inch screws made from stainless steel and the amount of thread engagement required for sheer strength. I went one screw greater. I calculated tensile strength with elastic tendencies and fatigue bending of stainless steel. It did not really need the intake fan four propulsion but more for rigidity of the veins since they were only 42/1000 of an inch. Or 0.042”. I chose the backplate to be 0.0625“ as I understand TIG welding and its complications with warping a base metal. I also wanted the girth there for balancing reasons. I went with an aluminum hub as it is aboat 3/7 the weight of mild steel. It’s influence of out of spec machining would have very little influence. I wire cut the centre and Key-way accounting for any variables. It was all screwed together with fastenAll approved SS screws, which I used their spec sheets. I suspect almost everything at 200,000 hours of use or 4300 of starts before fatigue calculations. Then I added 25% to all materials for safety. I guess this could be considered engineering, but that would be for the engineer and thread. Anybody who followed my original thread, I was going to allow for natural bending in the first a few start ups. But… As things progress, I opted to go for the back plate. I made two different form blocks to keep The negative of vain consistent. I took these blocks to a hydraulic stamping press with two hit process. When I was finished I tested it static balance using a 3/16 ball bearing for the first static balance and a surface table and perfectly level balancing apparatus (for balancingSurface grinder grinding wheels). I chucked it in the lathe... then I attached it to the motor for shits and giggles. You would have no clue how many detractors I had when it came to open testing. I even have a video of it. I might’ve missed a little bit of thermal/Air dynamics in my engineering. But I built my whole blower for under $40 material . And maybe six hours of free execution/Labour. I am personally out $40 on this design. Most engineers won’t even take this challenge on.

I’d be fine with a tape measure. Nuts, bolts, a drill bit.... they all I found their way way into the cyclones bin. My personal fear is grocery bags or hardware store Plastic bags.

I have since added magnets to inlets and the main trunk.

I have magnetic catches throughout my dust collector. They are all homemade and attached to the trunk with neodymium magnets. I’ve lost screw drives and they are caught. Nails they are caught. It’s funny that at 70 miles an hour a nail can be pulled out of the airstream. I burn almost 100% of my shavings, dust bin collection. One man’s garbage is another man’s gold. I heat my house with it. So I handle the scrap at least twice.

None of my machines create long curllies. My jointer/planer is a insert head. I’ve even tested bubblegum wrappers and halls rappers, they all end up in the dust bin.

I would prefer to talk in metres per second but I’m OK with being bilingual.

[Peter Christensen]

Matt I have a CV-Max with a three phase motor and a VFD. I just haven’t got it assembled and installed.