Clear Vue Cyclone...

[Wade Lippman]

I suspect that one cyclone is pretty much the same as another cyclone. If one (the CV in this review) did poorly, then there had to have been a problem with it that does not reflect on all of that make. That makes it a lousy review.

That said, I am confused about the CV mystique. It is finicky to assemble and expensive. It might be as close to perfect as a cyclone can be, but my Grizzly is extremely powerful (if I forget to close a blast gate or two it is still quite adequate on the tool I am using) and I have 2 or 3 cups of dust in the bag under the filter after about 120 gallons of collection. I don't know if it is possible to be better than that, but it certainly isn't necessary. (and that performance is with a pipe elbow way too close to the entry. Doing that better, I suppose there would be no dust in the bag!)
But I am sure that others work just as well, though they maybe don't have as nice a filter brush or hold the dust bin bag down as well.

[William C Rogers]

I do not have either the Clear Vue or the Onida cyclones. Early on in this thread PT said this was a filter test and not a cyclone efficiency test which I agree. Actually a system efficiency test. From what is mentioned, Wood Magazine tested the Clear Vue with the MERV 10 filter provided by Wynn. Onida's system has a MERV 16. Onida should win this unless the upgraded Wynn nano filters are used. I am not saying Wood Magazine's test provide a comparison that is believable. In reality the Clear Vue should not show readings any higher than the PM and should be less with less material being passed to the filter because of cyclone efficiency (assumption). Also I do not know the break in period of the CV filter. With a cyclone this may take longer than normal. The CV will require a break in period to reach optimum efficiency where Onida's system out of the box provides a high level of filter action. Since this was not a cyclone comparison, there is no report on how much material the cyclones collected. I would conclude from the test results there was a leak in the Clear Vue system. However Wood Magazine should also have run one of the other systems again as a baseline as a year is much too long between comparison test. IMO I believe both the CV and Onida are very good. However IMO all they provide is separation before the filter to reduce cleaning cycle of the filter. I feel the filter is the real key. I have both of the Wynn filters. The 9300 (MERV10) for the table saw dust collector with a Thien baffle in front of it. Still not set up, but will put the nano filters on the Jet 1900 for use with the drum sander. I plan to put the eBay cyclone in front of this. And I know that will not provide the separation of purchased systems, I am hoping it provides a better fine separation than the Thien baffle (it might not) to reduce the filter cleaning cycle.

[John Coloccia]

]
That said, I am confused about the CV mystique. It is finicky to assemble and expensive.

Well, it's not finicky to assemble, and until recently it was much CHEAPER than anything that could even approach it in performance. I'll also note, because everyone keeps coming back to the "it's made of plastic" business, that if you read through Bill's site, somewhere you'll read about where he had an impeller he was testing come apart. Apparently, it was contained just fine by the PETG used in the Clearvue, but punched clear through the metal. It also actually fits under an 8" ceiling. There were plenty of cyclones some years ago in CV's performance range that were a lot more expensive and DIDN'T fit.

Everyone else is just playing catchup, driven no doubt by the need to compete with the CV. I'll also say that CV has always run a clean advertising and marketing campaign. One company in particular used to run a very fishy comparison between their system and the CV. The most outrageous claim was about the impeller. They tried to imply that CV's impeller was unsafe and zoomed in on some spot welds. Well, what they didn't zoom in on were the perfectly executed, full length welds on the other side of the blade. That is not only acceptable, it's the proper way to do it to prevent warping. Really dirty campaign.

edit: I just checked....it's still there. I'll also mention that their particular system they compared it against is all that was available at the time, was MORE expensive, and still didn't fit under an 8' ceiling.

[Phil Thien]

Everyone else is just playing catchup, driven no doubt by the need to compete with the CV. I'll also say that CV has always run a clean advertising and marketing campaign. One company in particular used to run a very fishy comparison between their system and the CV. The most outrageous claim was about the impeller. They tried to imply that CV's impeller was unsafe and zoomed in on some spot welds. Well, what they didn't zoom in on were the perfectly executed, full length welds on the other side of the blade. That is not only acceptable, it's the proper way to do it to prevent warping. Really dirty campaign.

Having maintained my perfect objectivity throughout this entire thread, I will just say there have been some misleading statements and misrepresentations made by both camps and leave it at that.

[Paul McGaha]

Just an opinion but I think this really is like a Ford and Chevy discussion.

I have an Oneida and I'm happy with it. I've read of several happy Oneida owners.

I don't think I've ever read a comment from a Clearview owner where the owner wasn't satisfied with his cyclone and would recommend it to others.

There are other good makers out there too.

PHM

[Ruhi Arslan]

Considering the particulate separation (or cyclone efficiency within the context here) is essentailly correlated with inlet speed and pressure drop, if the magazine review study did not consider the ambient temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, particulate size, shape and density, ratio of particulate volume/weight to intake air volume, the inner surface friction coefficient where the particulate matter collides and travels due to gravitational forces, it is meaningless.

P.S. Just in case, for the ones with tight underwear; after 110+ postings, it was time for a weekend morning humor...

[Ole Anderson]

Considering the particulate separation (or cyclone efficiency within the context here) is essentailly correlated with inlet speed and pressure drop, if the magazine review study did not consider the ambient temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, particulate size, shape and density, ratio of particulate volume/weight to intake air volume, the inner surface friction coefficient where the particulate matter collides and travels due to gravitational forces, it is meaningless.

P.S. Just in case, for the ones with tight underwear; after 110+ postings, it was time for a weekend morning humor...

Wow, I almost got a wedgie until I read your last line.

[Lou Stags]

I suspect that one cyclone is pretty much the same as another cyclone. If one (the CV in this review) did poorly, then there had to have been a problem with it that does not reflect on all of that make. That makes it a lousy review.

That said, I am confused about the CV mystique. It is finicky to assemble and expensive. It might be as close to perfect as a cyclone can be, but my Grizzly is extremely powerful (if I forget to close a blast gate or two it is still quite adequate on the tool I am using) and I have 2 or 3 cups of dust in the bag under the filter after about 120 gallons of collection. I don't know if it is possible to be better than that, but it certainly isn't necessary. (and that performance is with a pipe elbow way too close to the entry. Doing that better, I suppose there would be no dust in the bag!)
But I am sure that others work just as well, though they maybe don't have as nice a filter brush or hold the dust bin bag down as well.

Wade,

What Grizzly DC model do you have?

Lou

[Cody Colston]

Add Clear Vue to Festool and Sawstop as "most polarizing threads."

I don't understand why so many seem to have their panties in a wad over the test results. If you have a CV and are happy with it then great. It's your shop and your money. Sheesh.

[dan sherman]

I don't understand why so many seem to have their panties in a wad over the test results. If you have a CV and are happy with it then great. It's your shop and your money. Sheesh.

I think it's because the test results aren't even close to what most people would consider reality. I don't own either brand, but Oneida and CV got the reputations they have for a reason. If the article said CV was 10 or 15% less efficient I don't think anyone would bat an eye, but when an article claims "returned more than 20 times as much fine dust to the shop air" people are going to call bs.

Just looking at the chart, everything is pretty much as expected. The expensive machines did the best job, and the cheaper ones did progressively worse the cheaper the machine got. The only exception is the CV, the graph has it roughly half as efficient as a machine that cost's a third what it does. That's just not logical, companies with that poor a performance/price ratio don't stay in business very long.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Not trying to stir things up here anymore than they already are, but why would Mr. Pentz be banned from a site that discusses dust collection if he has information that might be useful to others??

Tony,

The only reason anyone gets banned at SMC is because they don't adhere to the Terms Of Service they agreed to abide when they joined or they can't act within the level of civility expected here at SMC.

[Art Mann]

I was around during the time Bill Pentz was active on this and other woodworking forums, from which he was eventually banned. I would not say that the moderators of any of the boards who banned Bill did so unfairly.

[Curt Harms]

I was around during the time Bill Pentz was active on this and other woodworking forums, from which he was eventually banned. I would not say that the moderators of any of the boards who banned Bill did so unfairly.

He could be a little ............ assertive. Though I saw quite a bit of "he's full of it" but very little or no why he's full of it.

[Art Mann]

I decided my comments were not useful to anyone so I deleted them.

[Jim O'Dell]

Dust collection threads have always been very divisive. I agree, there are several brands out there that do a very good job. I've said multiple times in the past that just like any purchase, you look at all the feature/benefits and you make your decision. For me and the money I had available, it was the ClearVue. For someone else it might be the Grizzly or Oneida, or even a used, other-than-big-name unit. (I looked at the Grizzly real hard.) The biggest thing is to get the best, in your mind, dust collection you can afford. If that's a HF unit, fine, get it and use it. If it is a respirator, get the best you can afford. Just do something to take care of your lungs. Jim.