What cyclone system would you buy?

[Ronnie Futo]

I'm buying my first cyclone system. I'm building a new shop and plan on putting 6" PVC in the slab. I don't plan on have 2 machines running at a time. What brand do you recommend?
My old dust collection system is a Delta 50-850 that was moved around from one machine to another. What hp would you recommend? Is the cyclone that much better than my old Delta? Can you turn your cyclone on and off, with the machine you are running, without burning up the motor?
I was planning on having system outside in an enclosed closet. Is there any problems in doing this? My old Delta was very messy to change bags, and wanted to keep as much dust as possible out of shop.

Thanks for all advice.

[Jim Andrew]

My cyclone is 2 hp and would go bigger. 3hp seems about right to me, as long as it has about a 15" impeller. Would consider the Oneida, and the Grizzly and clearview. Whatever happened to guys building their own from a kit, haven't seen any posts on that for some time?

[Clay Crocker]

I really like my Oneida, 2 hp, Super Dust Gorilla. It has a remote control (like a key FOB) that is clipped to my shop apron, Oneida says that motor should be cycled on no more than six (6) time per hour to extend the life of the motor. Can't speak to the outside closet question since mine is inside the shop, but I would think, depending on the climate, that having the DC exhaust outdoors could have an effect on the heating or cooling in your shop.

[Jim O'Dell]

I believe you can still download the info on Bill Pentz's site to build your own. Motor is easily purchased from Electric Motor Warehouse online. You could get the fan from several places, including ClearVue. Sheldon probably still sells them. I forget where the one that came with my ClearVue was built, but it was after Ed quit using the Sheldon and before he started building, or having someone build, his own. You can do some searches here, might have to go back a ways, and find people here who built their own. From time to time, Bill Pentz offered kits his son laser cut, but I know his son got too busy to continue those years ago. Never know, there might still be one laying around!! Jim.

My cyclone is 2 hp and would go bigger. 3hp seems about right to me, as long as it has about a 15" impeller. Would consider the Oneida, and the Grizzly and clearview. Whatever happened to guys building their own from a kit, haven't seen any posts on that for some time?

[Ronnie Futo]

Glad to hear you can cycle that many times without harm. Is it messy to clean out drum? How hard was assembly on Gorilla?

[Clay Crocker]

Cleaning the drum is not messy since I use plastic bags inside the drum. Assembly was pretty straight forward, but the unit is very heavy once assembled, so I would recommend getting some help to lift it into place if you use the wall mount. This is my setup not too long after I installed it:

DC Ducting 001.jpg

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I have a 3hp Oneida. I'd buy it again in an instant, the performance is superb. It's loud, but I think they all are. I'm putting it in the basement of my new shop, your plan of outside is good. Don't worry so much about burning motors and academic flow numbers, just hook up a cyclone and forget about it. Keep your pipes big enough, and you'll wonder why all people don't use cyclones.

[Janis Stipins]

Don't worry so much about burning motors and academic flow numbers, just hook up a cyclone and forget about it.

I don't understand this comment at all. Dust collection is a complicated subject, and like most things, it's easy to screw it up badly if you don't understand what you're doing.

To the OP: You should decide what your goal is for a dust collection system. If your goal is to pick up all the sawdust and chips so that you don't need to vacuum and sweep, that's one thing. If your goal is to keep the air in your shop clear of fine dust that you can't see but that can ruin your lungs, that's another thing.

Not everybody agrees that catching the fine dust is an important thing. (Just like not everybody agrees that smoking is bad for you.) But you can't decide on a dust collection system before you decide whether it's important to you.

If you just want to catch the chips, you'll need 350-400 CFM at each machine. If you want to meet the EPA standards for air quality in industrial wood shops, you're going to need 800-1000 CFM at each machine. Bill Pentz has written a great deal on this topic, and you can learn a lot from his website.

Keep your pipes big enough, and you'll wonder why all people don't use cyclones.

Not to pick on Steve too much, but this is bad advice. Those academic flow numbers that he advises you not to worry about will tell you that you need 4000-4500 FPM in a vertical run of duct in order to keep from getting piles of chips in your pipes, and something like 2800 FPM to keep it moving horizontally. The bigger the pipe you use, the slower the airspeed will be, unless you use a stronger cyclone too. You don't want sawdust to pile up in your pipes; you want it to make it all the way to the cyclone.

The point is: there's no way around the fact that this is a complex subject that requires some thinking. It isn't rocket science, but it's not exactly 'fire and forget' either.

One final thought: Definitely don't put your pipes in the slab. How are you going to clean them out if they get clogged, or if you suck up a hose clamp or something by accident and it gets caught in the pipes? (Just an example; DAMHIKT.) Also when you add a new machine, you're probably going to want to redo the layout. Better to keep that stuff very accessible.

Good luck,
-Janis

[Michael Mahan]

@ 1st a system that has ducting in a slab seems like a good Idea outta sight , below , no tubes hanging over head BUT as pointed out above by Janis , I myself would Never dream of doing it under concrete , what happens if you suck up your car keys ? tape measure ?
I got a ClearVue CVMAX I got deal on the larger one , I haven't had it installed yet , I'm venting out doors no filters & looks to be a outdoor install as well ATM

[Jim Andrew]

Agree with the underslab comments, if your layout is perfect and you never make changes, maybe you would get by, but I am always up for making changes and that requires changes in your dust piping. I'm sure Steve studied Bill Pentz site before buying and installing his cyclone, and getting the proper cyclone, installing the right size pipe with long sweeping fittings, and avoiding dust traps goes a long way in a successful system. In my last 9 years with a 2 hp cyclone, have had only one plug, and the system unplugged itself after I opened a couple gates. Probably was caused by my tablesaw cutting off a thin strip which was sucked up into the system, and got jammed into a fitting. I find those strips in the barrel sometimes when I dump it. Amazing a 2 hp system can suck cutoffs straight up through a flex hose. Only reason I recommend a bigger cyclone is if you get a sander. Probably need a 5 hp system if you plan a widebelt. My tiny 15" widebelt drops dust off the belt while I'm running it. It has a 5" opening at the top, and opens up below to a full width funnel that is supposed to pick up all the sawdust, the restriction of 5" is negative while it adds square inches inside the machine, so only makes sense you need a very strong system to make it work correctly.

[Ole Anderson]

Quick answer? 3 hp Oneida SDG with a 7" main run pipe, all metal ducts. I have the 2 hp, it works great, but for the little bit extra you get a lot more static pressure at the sweet spot of 800-1000 cfm. Don't get any cyclone with less than about 8" of SP at 800 cfm. Ok that is a generalization and depends on a lot of factors, but you generally won't go wrong. Personally I don't get all the hype on the CV, it really got panned in the Wood mag review this month, but that is the subject of another thread.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I don't understand this comment at all. Dust collection is a complicated subject, and like most things, it's easy to screw it up badly if you don't understand what you're doing.

To the OP: You should decide what your goal is for a dust collection system. If your goal is to pick up all the sawdust and chips so that you don't need to vacuum and sweep, that's one thing. If your goal is to keep the air in your shop clear of fine dust that you can't see but that can ruin your lungs, that's another thing.

Not everybody agrees that catching the fine dust is an important thing. (Just like not everybody agrees that smoking is bad for you.) But you can't decide on a dust collection system before you decide whether it's important to you.

If you just want to catch the chips, you'll need 350-400 CFM at each machine. If you want to meet the EPA standards for air quality in industrial wood shops, you're going to need 800-1000 CFM at each machine. Bill Pentz has written a great deal on this topic, and you can learn a lot from his website.



Not to pick on Steve too much, but this is bad advice. Those academic flow numbers that he advises you not to worry about will tell you that you need 4000-4500 FPM in a vertical run of duct in order to keep from getting piles of chips in your pipes, and something like 2800 FPM to keep it moving horizontally. The bigger the pipe you use, the slower the airspeed will be, unless you use a stronger cyclone too. You don't want sawdust to pile up in your pipes; you want it to make it all the way to the cyclone.

The point is: there's no way around the fact that this is a complex subject that requires some thinking. It isn't rocket science, but it's not exactly 'fire and forget' either.

One final thought: Definitely don't put your pipes in the slab. How are you going to clean them out if they get clogged, or if you suck up a hose clamp or something by accident and it gets caught in the pipes? (Just an example; DAMHIKT.) Also when you add a new machine, you're probably going to want to redo the layout. Better to keep that stuff very accessible.

Good luck,
-Janis

It's ok Janis, you can pick on me. I agree, dust collection is complicated, BUT....

There are a wide range of adequate solutions to any shop, and following simple common sense will yield a good system. Some people advocate a masters level understanding of the physics of the beasts before they just use the darn thing. This is a disservice, as it can cause paralysis by analysis, and a substandard system may be used longer than it should. I can see how it could certainly drive some to think it's not worth the trouble, and just go without as well.

Jim's right, I absorbed all the info I could, Pentz included, before I started on mine. After several months though, when it became apparent that multiple "experts" here couldn't even agree on simple things, a red flag went up. There is no one size fits all solution, all of our shops are different. That being said, several rules of thumb emerged. For instance, 4" is inadequate on nearly every level, minimize flex tubing, and keep air flowing so the dust won't fall out of suspension. The duct design can be simplified as well, start at whatever size your port is on the collector, and taper down from there, in the logical places.

It's as complicated of a subject as one makes it. Some enjoy the complication, which is fine, some don't want the complication. The OP is asking a basic question, which cyclone, which means he understands the basics enough to pick a class of a machine. My response was tuned to the simplification direction because he didn't start by saying he had determined that he needed a particular fan with this curve, but rather a simple general question. It looks to me by Ronnies post, that he's ready to jump in already, so a simple nudge in a proven direction is all he asked for. He didn't ask for a detailed discussion on the physics, that may come later, if he chooses, as long as he picks a good reliable machine up front.

[Russ Ambrose]

2hp or 3hp Oneida. fantastic product - made in the USA - and their customer service is great. i have a 3hp dust gorilla and would not trade it for anything.

[Erik Loza]

Cannot go wrong with Oneida. Great folks to work with.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Ronnie Futo]

Thanks for the help guys. Anybody got their pipes in the floor?any clogs? I'm going to pour slab next week.

I was leaning towards a Clearvue or an Onedia, 3 or 5 hp. Does the stand on the Onedia work well or is it better to mount to the wall?

If I put outside, can I just cut a hole in wall to vent to closet back into shop? I could add a furnace type filter, if needed.