Why loose tools in a tool box? Why even a tool box?

[David Weaver]

I like Schwarz. I think his inquires are mostly pragmatic and not simply academic. He does lots of empirical stuff that leads to useful info. He seems down-to-earth and sincere. Like a friend who shares the hobby and tells you about their latest endeavors and hard won insights.

I think a lot of people do, and that's fine. I see it as an indirect route to get to what I really want to get to, though.

It's sort of like learning mathematics from someone who doesn't have a great grip on it yet, or taking golf tips from a friend who has a similar handicap. Those kinds of things are useful the for an introduction to mathematics or the first few rounds of golf you play. After that, it seems to me that a combination of professional opinion and time spent "in the dirt" (as hogan put it) is more appropriate unless it's a social sharing of common level insights.

By the number of people who go to 1 hour or 1 day classes on subjects, or who buy literature and videos, it's clear that not everyone shares my opinion. this isn't the only subject where that's the case.

And because of that, anyway, I'd rather not extrapolate on the question.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Sean

This is Chris Schwarz' tool chest (but please note I was not referring to his specifically, but the multitude of tool chests I have seen that look the same, that is, store tools loose like this) ...



Now I just Googled. I have no idea whose tool chests these belong to ...






There are many, many more.

As I mentioned at the start, I can understand why a travelling woodworker needs a tool chest. I can accept that some woodworkers at home lack space to house their tools. But for the rest?? However, more than this, I just do not understand blindly following a fashion where sharp tools are left to bump into one another in trays.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

What is the mile long dovetail saw for? I can't recall why he got that made.

[Sean Hughto]

I don't quite understand why you seem to exhalt "professionals" so much. Certainly professionals will have insights into topics professionals do that hobbiests do not - running a business; producing efficiently, cost containment, winning clients, etc. And they may be faster at certain operations. And they MIGHT have developed taste and the ability to create new designs, but many might make lots of plywood kitchen cabinets or simply reproduce antique forms. Amateurs, who have the luxury of time and no limits on their purse strings, may also have taste and creative inspiration. In short, I'll learn from anyone who has something to teach me.

Also too: Krenov - "I've never made furniture professionally," he told Oscar Fitzgerald in an interview in 2004. "I'm an amateur and always will be. That's the way I want to die. I'm an amateur by nature. David Pye wrote somewhere that the best work of this century would certainly be done by amateurs."

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Last time I saw Chris discussing his tool chest, I believe he had the majority of sharp things in leather rolls?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

What is the mile long dovetail saw for? I can't recall why he got that made.

It was a sort of joke saw - I think it was actually Roy Underhills? I remember seeing videos of him hamming it up in his usual fashion with it at Woodworking Shows. Lie Nielsen made it. Something about a "one stroke dovetail saw" or something. Nothing really for sale or purposeful, although I kind of wonder how many folks actually tried to get one after seeing it and not getting that it was supposed to be a "real fake" tool.

[Sean Hughto]

Fair enough. I was remembering things like slots for things like the chisels in the penultimate picture above. Then again, is there much difference between these trays and a drawer in rolling cart? Or perhaps you are saying you don't like drawers either - everything should be hung on the wall or in a slot in a cabinet?

[Jonathan McCullough]

a writer satisfying his curiosity

I'd suggest that during this hand tool/old tool renaissance a lot of people (myself included) have discovered that hand tools can be easier to use and give more pleasing results, along with the discovery that old methods of work can be quite effective. That requires some scholarship, some experimentation, and published results. It would be a hoot to write about looking up old methods and fixtures, building them, and discussing their relative merits. Looking over Chris Schwartz's work, there are some hits, some misses, and I'll let you all decide which you think are most useful to you, but one thing I think most of us can agree on is that he's certainly not regurgitating for the umpteenth time the same tired old magazine articles from yesteryear. He's inquisitive, has an engaging writing style, and although I wouldn't build the Anarchist's Chest, I think there's something to be learned from his process.

Agree with your post #26 above. I even have . . . wait for it . . . one of those black $150 rolling tool chest-on-chest specials from Harbor Freight for wrenches, gear pullers, mechanic-y stuff. Works really well I have to say, and sort of where I got the idea for my woodworking version. I'd get another but just want to make my own. If you're a woodworker, you should make it, right? That's my plan.

[Chris Griggs]

I like Schwarz. I think his inquires are mostly pragmatic and not simply academic. He does lots of empirical stuff that leads to useful info. He seems down-to-earth and sincere. Like a friend who shares the hobby and tells you about their latest endeavors and hard won insights.

I agree. I like a lot of his stuff. When these threads come up I always like to say that I think of him as a professional woodworking hobbyist (and I mean that in a complementary way). I'm not going to make a big floor tool chest, but have gotten a lot of great insights from him. Now that I have some of my own experience and opinions there's stuff he recommends that I don't necessarily agree with, but I think a great deal of his stuff is really helpful and applicable to small, home-based, hand tool oriented shops. Many of us here on SMC are pretty darn academic too, so I certainly would not criticize him for that as I am, for better or for worse, very much an academic by nature in everything I do.

Actually, as much as the recommendation for using a chest like his first one in stable home shop confuses me, I do dig that dutch tool chest. Its more of a mobile shelving unit which does very much appeal to me.

, I'll learn from anyone who has something to teach me.

Yes, this.

[Mel Fulks]

I see Schwarz as a kind of woodworking motivational speaker. He brings in new people and is a force against idleness.

[Bill Rhodus]

I think the usefulness of the chests depends upon your personal circumstances. I find that I prefer to have most of my tools in racks/shelves upon the wall if possible but I live in an environment that does not favor bare metal. 30+ years ago I began storing my planes, chisels, and whatnot in a surplus army footlocker and later graduated to a pair of chests made of plywood in which I placed desiccant packs. This seemed to help a great deal so I stayed with it. As I grew older and began thinking of leaving my tools to the next generation, I decided to build chests to replace the plywood boxes. The recipients will have to worry about how they want to store the tailed tool on the shelves.

[David Weaver]

I don't quite understand why you seem to exhalt "professionals" so much. Certainly professionals will have insights into topics professionals do that hobbiests do not - running a business; producing efficiently, cost containment, winning clients, etc. And they may be faster at certain operations. And they MIGHT have developed taste and the ability to create new designs, but many might make lots of plywood kitchen cabinets or simply reproduce antique forms. Amateurs, who have the luxury of time and no limits on their purse strings, may also have taste and creative inspiration. In short, I'll learn from anyone who has something to teach me.

Also too: Krenov - "I've never made furniture professionally," he told Oscar Fitzgerald in an interview in 2004. "I'm an amateur and always will be. That's the way I want to die. I'm an amateur by nature. David Pye wrote somewhere that the best work of this century would certainly be done by amateurs."

Yeah, I don't want to make anything that krenov makes (and never read any of his books because his furniture and planes told me right away that i'd have to get through a list of many other things before they were at the top of the list), and don't want to do any of the type of work Pye talks about. Until I'm good enough otherwise, I will probably make amateurish work, but that's not my goal and I don't want to make it a destination. I don't want to turn bowls or pens, make krenov planes, mission style furniture or stuff where people talk to trees and get sad, you know? I want to pick something specific and get good at it.

I'm not a frank klausz fanatic by any means - only have one video from him - but I remember him saying something along the lines of the problem with woodworkers in the united states is they think they want to do everything, and then they don't ever get good at anything.

As far as learning things, I sort of see it as, I could learn something from Chris Schwarz if I fished through 100 things I don't care about. Or I could learn the same thing instantly, much more finely, accurately, and in better context if I just called George.

[Steve Voigt]

I don't quite understand why you seem to exhalt "professionals" so much. Certainly professionals will have insights into topics professionals do that hobbiests do not - running a business; producing efficiently, cost containment, winning clients, etc. And they may be faster at certain operations. And they MIGHT have developed taste and the ability to create new designs, but many might make lots of plywood kitchen cabinets or simply reproduce antique forms. Amateurs, who have the luxury of time and no limits on their purse strings, may also have taste and creative inspiration. In short, I'll learn from anyone who has something to teach me.

Also too: Krenov - "I've never made furniture professionally," he told Oscar Fitzgerald in an interview in 2004. "I'm an amateur and always will be. That's the way I want to die. I'm an amateur by nature. David Pye wrote somewhere that the best work of this century would certainly be done by amateurs."

+1 to this.
I think having "professional" qualifications is important in many fields, but hand tool woodworking is not one of them. With the exception of specialized sub-trades like luthiery or Windsor chairmaking, almost no one earns a living working wood primarily by hand. The few that do tend to work in a protected environment like a museum, and augment their incomes with teaching (Peter Follansbee is a good example).
As I indicated in my earlier post, I once earned a living (though admittedly a meager one) from woodworking. There wasn't much time to use hand tools; I used whatever got the job done fastest. Now that I'm an amateur again, I know a hundred times more about hand tool woodworking than I did back then.

[David Weaver]

This has sort of gotten away from Derek's original question, and his conclusion. I agree with Derek (and subsequently Dave Anderson).

My parents have at least a dozen old chests, and some of them are old tool chests. They use them for decoration along open spaces in their house, as something to put items on top of for visual interest. It would be pretty easy for me to mooch one off of them, but I would much rather have my tools in open racks and on the wall.

I'd imagine a lot of the chests my parents had went on wagons, and in some cases, most of them are marked some way or another. They make nice decoration and storage for things they don't use very often.

[Jeff Heath]

Derek, I agree with you. To me, a tool box is in the same department as a tool tray on a workbench. It's a place where tools are difficult to find and reach. For my shop, I much prefer a wall hanging toolbox (presently under construction......after only 25 years). During my years as a very busy cabinetmaker, I would haul my tools in several "old school" carpenters boxes.....you know....the open box with the single handle running down the center. Even as a pretty big, strong guy, I would not want to lug an entire chest filled with all the hand tools I would bring with me. I don't know what a chest filled with tools would weigh, but I've got to guess in the neighborhood of 300 to 400 pounds. I'm a pickup truck guy, and wouldn't want to lug that box up and down out of the bed.

Having the tools in an open box hanging on the wall does two things for me.

1. It gives me instant access to whatever tool I need without having to move boxes or trays around.

2. At the end of the day, it instantly tells me what tools are not back in their place. I know a box would probably do the same, but it would require a thorough inspection, including removal of trays and boxes.

My .02