Blue Mold - How to mitigate it?

[Jeff Nicol]

On most all white soft woods that are wet when stored or sealed will mold in some way or another and since box elder is very creamy white when it has no damage to the tree from either bugs or just a broken limb will let mold and other things enter into the tree. I think that when there are beetles involved that is when you get the more distinct flames or "Ambrosia" effect since it is a maple tree. Here in WI there will be red in the wood without any bug activity at all, but is either due to damage from wind, deer rubs, or woodpeckers/sapsuckers. I had a small piece of a tree where a bird had made holes all the way around it and when it was cut the holes created a very symetrical flame pattern on the limb. I have been going to take a small drill bit and make some holes just through the cambium layer to see if it can be replicated by human intervention.

The blue mold really likes fresh cut wood with sap still in the wood, so if the tree was still mostly alive, the white part was still untainted and alive. When I saw pine in the summer/spring I have to make sure to sticker the wood quickly and get all the surfaces dry pretty fast. I have sawn red pine and left it over night just flat stacked and the next day the mold is already growing inbetween the boards. This will happen with soft maples too, but it does not seem to penetrate like it does on pine. But like already said it is not possible in any way that I know to get rid of it once it is in the fibers of the wood. Just another natural beauty mark!

Good luck,

Jeff

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks Jeff for that info..........I appreciate your reply........your reply gives some additional perspective on the issue for me!

[Tim Rinehart]

Hey Roger, I came across some info that you may find interesting.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/te...blue-stain.pdf

[Mike Cruz]

Jeff (and Roger...and I suppose everyone else, too), YES, it is my understanding that you CAN create the flame in box elder quite easily. Earlier this year, I spoke with Dr. Sarah (the spalting pro out west). She quite flippantly mentioned that you can do it by simply drilling some holes in the tree. The flaming will start just like that...

BTW, I know I've mentioned this before, but just to add some info here: Again, from my understanding, any pigment in wood caused BY THE TREE is NOT colorfast. That is why the flames in box elder fade, cherry gets darker, walnut lightens, and ambrosia maple changes (more on that in a minute). The reason that these pigments change is that the tree does not expect UV light to ever reach it. So, the pigment is not protected from it. ON THE OTHER HAND, pigments caused by fungi ARE colorfast. Fungi (spalting) live in the sunlight. They are prepared for it. So, black line spalting will stay just as crisp, greys, blues, pinks, and greens will stay just as vibrant as when you first see them.

On ambrosia maple: There are two things going on here... The ambrosia beetle bores into the tree. This introduces fungi (call it mold if you want, but Sarah takes issue with that ) INTO the tree. As the fungi grows and spreads in the tree (the first discoloration in the wood), the tree reacts by "surrounding" the fungi to protect itself (the second color). If you've ever taken a good look at ambrosia maple from a very healthy tree, you'll see that there are two distinct colors/bands in each streak. So, ambrosia in maple is both a spalt (fungi) AND a tree reaction. The former is colorfast, the latter is not.

[Roger Chandler]

Hey Roger, I came across some info that you may find interesting.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/te...blue-stain.pdf

Thanks Mike..............I took a look and will go back and read the entire document when I have time to digest it. Thanks for the link!

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Jeff (and Roger...and I suppose everyone else, too), YES, it is my understanding that you CAN create the flame in box elder quite easily. Earlier this year, I spoke with Dr. Sarah (the spalting pro out west). She quite flippantly mentioned that you can do it by simply drilling some holes in the tree. The flaming will start just like that...

BTW, I know I've mentioned this before, but just to add some info here: Again, from my understanding, any pigment in wood caused BY THE TREE is NOT colorfast. That is why the flames in box elder fade, cherry gets darker, walnut lightens, and ambrosia maple changes (more on that in a minute). The reason that these pigments change is that the tree does not expect UV light to ever reach it. So, the pigment is not protected from it. ON THE OTHER HAND, pigments caused by fungi ARE colorfast. Fungi (spalting) live in the sunlight. They are prepared for it. So, black line spalting will stay just as crisp, greys, blues, pinks, and greens will stay just as vibrant as when you first see them.

On ambrosia maple: There are two things going on here... The ambrosia beetle bores into the tree. This introduces fungi (call it mold if you want, but Sarah takes issue with that ) INTO the tree. As the fungi grows and spreads in the tree (the first discoloration in the wood), the tree reacts by "surrounding" the fungi to protect itself (the second color). If you've ever taken a good look at ambrosia maple from a very healthy tree, you'll see that there are two distinct colors/bands in each streak. So, ambrosia in maple is both a spalt (fungi) AND a tree reaction. The former is colorfast, the latter is not.

You might be correct about that in certain areas Mike, like where the fungi is very prevalent, however around the London Ontario area this is not the case, even though I have cut and turned Manitoba Maple (Acer negundo) with lots of the red discoloration and without any, even though one tree had lost a couple of big limbs years earlier or others that did get damaged in ice storms.

Some pictures here for comparison and some info from a study done in the Kansas area, from before Sara Robinson (who's from our area of Ontario and a mother now I believe) did a lot of studies on the coloration (spaltings & rotting) of wood.

Red Acer negundo.jpg Acer negundo.jpg Acer Negundo red stain.jpg

[Dave Mueller]

I took the spalting course from Dr. Sara Robinson and really learned a lot. Incidentally, she is now at Oregon State and is still pregnant. Mike, you are correct about spalting being UV stable, whereas boxelder coloration is not. Roger, one thing you might want to try is spray the freshly cut log, especially the bark, with 95% DNA. In the spalting course, we learned to use it to kill any ambient spores on our worksurface so there was a sterile field to propagate spalting fungi without contaminating it from airborn spores. I also use it to clean all my plastic spalting tubs between runs. If the blue spalting fungus is on the surface of the freshly cut wood, the DNA should kill it and prevent blue stain spalting while it dries. Just a guess, but it may work.

[Roger Chandler]

I took the spalting course from Dr. Sara Robinson and really learned a lot. Incidentally, she is now at Oregon State and is still pregnant. Mike, you are correct about spalting being UV stable, whereas boxelder coloration is not. Roger, one thing you might want to try is spray the freshly cut log, especially the bark, with 95% DNA. In the spalting course, we learned to use it to kill any ambient spores on our worksurface so there was a sterile field to propagate spalting fungi without contaminating it from airborn spores. I also use it to clean all my plastic spalting tubs between runs. If the blue spalting fungus is on the surface of the freshly cut wood, the DNA should kill it and prevent blue stain spalting while it dries. Just a guess, but it may work.

Thanks Dave..........spraying DNA sounds like an easy thing to try........I appreciate your reply!

[charlie knighton]

you can bleach other woods, here is maple with some carving like JJ, the spalting is subdued, it is not erased, sort of faded, ok look i think

my pictures have not progressed since then

[Leo Van Der Loo]

you can bleach other woods, here is maple with some carving like JJ, the spalting is subdued, it is not erased, sort of faded, ok look i think

my pictures have not progressed since then

I have bleached wood, Maple that was spalted, did use the 2 part wood bleach, the spalting lines are as sharp and vivid as from the pieces I did not bleach.

Here are a couple of pictures to show the outcome of he bleached wood and you can compare that with the pieces that are not bleached, HTH

The coloration made by fungus is not affected by Bleach.

Ball Ornament 2.jpg Bleached 1.jpg spalted ornament.jpg Bleached.jpg Ball Ornament.jpg

[charlie knighton]

exactly Leo, if you have the black line it stands out , the rest of spalting is subdued. like your ornaments Leo

the blue mold since it is not black line will be subdued

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks everyone for your input on this question! Lots of interesting discussion on bleaching and other means..........I am most appreciative of all the responses! I have several ideas I can try now, including embracing the blue/gray stains!

[robert baccus]

I'm pretty sure the blue stain or spalting is common old black mildew--forgot the genus. Great bleaching Leo-have you tried that on Wenge. Really weird results.