Dowels, Biscuits or Dominos?

[Keith Hankins]

I'm an avid meth... I mean Festool addict. I vote for the domino. I have the DF-500 and it has saved me TONS of time. That time saved easily offset the hefty $900 price tag. I've used it to make coffee tables, dining tables, benches, media cabinets, mantles, shop storage, and floating shelves.

My tools are my main source of income so time is a huge priority. I've yet to use a doweling jig so I can't knock it. However, I have used a biscuit joiner. The Domino really shouldn't even be compared to the biscuit joiner. Similar purposes, but the Domino is leaps and bounds stronger and offers much better alignment.

I had the domino and I agree there is no comparison between the biscuit and domino. I think a better comparison is the domino and floating tenon. I also think that if you need to take your tools with you to where you work its great. However, since I've moved to a true M&T with a large mortiser from the domino, the time and complexity of glue up is easier IMO. And to be clear, I had the domino from the get go and loved it. When comparing apples to apples a large M&T machine is more convenient in time from my experiences. Just to be clear I have a tone of green and love the festool.

[Phil Thien]

I had the domino and I agree there is no comparison between the biscuit and domino. I think a better comparison is the domino and floating tenon. I also think that if you need to take your tools with you to where you work its great. However, since I've moved to a true M&T with a large mortiser from the domino, the time and complexity of glue up is easier IMO. And to be clear, I had the domino from the get go and loved it. When comparing apples to apples a large M&T machine is more convenient in time from my experiences. Just to be clear I have a tone of green and love the festool.

But mortising machines aren't typically used with floating tenons, right? So you typically have to using your mortising machine to cut your mortises, and then use another method to cut tenons?

I suppose you could use a mortising machine to cut a mortise in the end grain. But this might be a challenge in (for example) a bed rail (or anything long).

[Alan Lightstone]

I have most of these.

I use the Domino the most. Especially for lining up panel glue-ups.

For shop furniture, I'll often just grab the Kreg, because it's so fast.

Rarely use dowels. Never trusted their strengths.

For fine furniture where strength is key, I use the Leigh FMT Pro Frame Mortise and Tenon Jig (FMT Pro). VERY pricey(makes the Domino look cheap by comparison), but makes very accurate, amazingly strong mortise and tenon joints.

[Sam Murdoch]

… and you can bring the Domino to your work. That's a very useful feature.

[Alan Bienlein]

But mortising machines aren't typically used with floating tenons, right? So you typically have to using your mortising machine to cut your mortises, and then use another method to cut tenons?

I suppose you could use a mortising machine to cut a mortise in the end grain. But this might be a challenge in (for example) a bed rail (or anything long).

Thats why I mainly use my pantorouter. With one setup it will do the mortise in the stile/leg and the tenon on the rails.

[Peter Quinn]

I have used them all and own many of them presently. What I use and when depends on the application, my mood, moon cycle, what type of beer is in my fridge. Not always tied to pure logic. What fun would that be?

Dowels are often enough reenforcement for most furniture and cabinetry joints, they hold frame and panel doors together well, you can drill accurate dowels cheaply with any number of jigs, or a shop made fixture, or spend a small fortune on machinery should you so choose. I use a self centering jig (the original one) and a dowel bar on a slot mortiser. Biscuits for me end up mostly in plywood, and mostly where I don't want to invest much time or though into layout, set up, dados, etc. I can't exactly finance a Tahitian vacation with the revenue that could be garnered from its sale, so the biscuit joiner stays, and because it stays, it gets used...occasionally. Would I build chairs with it? Not for my house, and not for a friend.

The domino is great, very versatile, portable, limited by its depth, now there is that super jumbo version which goes deeper. The only problem I have with it is cost. Ouch. Is Festool run by a drug company? They seem to operate on the same basis, we figured this thing out, our actual production cost may not be this high, but you want what we got....you're going to pay and its going to hurt. Sure sure...R&D....blah blah blah, gotta make back our money X100....etc. Ouch. Still, its a tough set of features not to like. Not life saving, but given its popularity you might think so. So I use this at work where time is money and some other guy is paying for the tools.

I bought a slot mortiser a while back, because I have occasions to make big stout "MAN" mortises, not those silly little discrete "domino" tea cookie mortises. For instance, eaves brackets that are holding up a roof. Your demi lune hall table fails, you loose a vase from you MIL. Your entry roof brackets fail under snow load, you are standing there, you're dead. Ouch. The slot mortiser goes wider, deeper, faster than anything except a Maka. Mine dowels too. Put a sharp drill on a 3HP direct drive motor, drills holes very easily, the doweling bar makes it accurate/repeatable. Not quite as quick as a domino to set up, almost, but not quite. Good on multiples.

And there's always the chisel mortiser........there's always that.


Joinery methods are like opinions. Every body's got one, at least one, what it comes down to for me is there is no best, strongest is irrelevant in most cases, its what you like. And that takes time to determine, and its matched to the work. And it may change over time, so be flexible and open minded.

[Don Huffer]

That's by design Don, it allows lateral adjustment up to 1/8" during assembly, the precision comes when two adjacent faces meet, usually less than 1/64" difference, most times none.

Well Hank I've had my jointer for over 25 years. Porter Cable. There is far more movement than a 64th when the two pieces together. Which brand do you use?

Don

[Don Huffer]

For me I use my home built pantorouter.
<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280372"/>

I can make anywhere from a 1-1/2" wide mortise and tenon up to a 4" mortise and tenon with the interchangeable templates I made for it.
<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280373"/><img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280374"/><img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280375"/>

I also have a horizontal slot mortiser I built that does loose tenon joinery and variable width box joints.
<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280376"/><img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280378"/><img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280377"/>

I also built a domino from plans off the internet just to see if I could do it. It just sits up in the cabinet and hasn't been used since the test joints I made with it.
<img src="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=280371"/>

I personally would look at what you are wanting to build and let that decide what you need to make the joinery for the project. I grew up using dowels done with a piece of face frame stock that had two 3/8" holes drilled in it attached to a piece of 1/4" ply that was used to clamp it to what ever we were joining with dowels. The coffee table my father made 40 some years ago was joined together with dowels and is now in my home holding up just fine.

I also use biscuits depending on what the project needs. As for panel glue ups all you need is a good tight joint and clamp it. anything else added is just a waste of time and materials.

Nice pano mano. I agree let the project dictate which method to use. Early on that's how I chose to purchase tools too.

Don

[Don Huffer]

But mortising machines aren't typically used with floating tenons, right? So you typically have to using your mortising machine to cut your mortises, and then use another method to cut tenons?

I suppose you could use a mortising machine to cut a mortise in the end grain. But this might be a challenge in (for example) a bed rail (or anything long).

My mortising machine will cut both but I prefer cutting tenons on other tools like the table saw.

Don

[Jeff Erbele]

I did a cost analysis once when making my own tenons and found that the pre made ones where more cost effective.
Tom

Thomas, did you mean premade dominos are more cost effective?

[Mikhail Lermontov]

… and you can bring the Domino to your work. That's a very useful feature.

Why would you bring any tool to work except for your own project at work?

[Kent A Bathurst]

I'm just stuck on M&T. Hollow chisel mortiser for the mortises. Cut the tenons however seems right at the time and for the particular task:

One-offs - hand saws

Fine furniture - table saw for shoulders and tenon jig for faces on short to medium length rails. Sub dado stack for tenon jig on long parts.

Rougher stuff - outdoor fences, gates, entrances; shop-quality stuff - TS shoulder and BS faces. Cut the faces a bit fat, and a float to strip the saw blade marks in a swipe or two. Definitely the fastest, and very nice when running wide, heavy, rails.

The slot mortisers and the Domino have always intrigued me. If I ever found myself in a production situation, I'm pretty sure I would go something along those lines [but I am allergic to Green Kool-Aid, so unlikely that would happen]. The JDS Multi-Router would have to get some serious consideration.

[Sam Murdoch]

Why would you bring any tool to work except for your own project at work?

The point I was attempting to convey is that the Domino is portable and can be brought to the bench or to the job site - to the project - rather than needing to bring the project (and all the parts) to a fixed bench machine.

[Robert Silvers]

Part of the problem with biscuits is that people use junk ones in their testing.

I used calipers and measured the thickness of 30 each of DeWalt and Swiss-made Lamello plate joiner Biscuits. Lamello was 1000 for $46.37 from Amazon, which is 4.6 cents each. DeWalt was $7.98 for 100 from Lowes, which is 8 cents each. I calculated the mean and standard deviation of the thicknesses and the Lamello were more than 3x as uniform. 97.7% of Lamello are predicted to be between 3.69 and 4.00mm. DeWalt are 3.34 to 4.31mm. The goal is to be as close to 4mm without going over. Visually, the Lamello have a glue-gripping pattern on each side. The DeWalt had a more shallow grid on one side.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

If money isn´t a restriction I would go to Kreg pocket jointing system and domino.

Kreg has a great differential as it doesn´t need clamping. It makes difference in some cases, at last for my own construction process, so Kreg is mandatory in my "menu".

Between biscuit and dominos, they are very close in functionality. Usually dominos will offer stronger joints: you will be safe even using it even for chairs and other applications high stress joints, something very difficult to use biscuits. On the other hand, biscuits offers a few special applications besides the obvious, as temporary joints or "auto clamping" using special biscuits, but these applications are not popular.

Anyway I am a hobbyist I couldn´t justify the cost for domino, so I went to biscuits years ago.

Summary: in your shoes I would go for both, Kreg pocket screw system and domino - they complement themselves.

All the best,