Forthcoming chipbreaker article

[Steve Voigt]

I was pretty psyched to see this today.
Of course, there is already a good article by Dave Weaver on wood central, but it's nice to see this topic getting some front page acknowledgement in the "mainstream" WW press. And Kees has been out front on this issue from the beginning. So, congrats, Kees and Wilbur.

[Chris Griggs]

Excellent!!!

[Kees Heiden]

Don't forget Bill Tindall! He has been at it like a bulldog. Poking and pushing all the right persons until this article got through into the mainstream press. He didn't need to poke me too much because I love writing and I love playing with planes. The cooperation with Wilbur was fantastic too. Great fun to send the article back and forth over the ocean. Hope you all enjoy the article.

To be honest, I won't believe it until I see it in print with my own eyes...

[David Weaver]

Don't forget Bill Tindall!.

Bill Tindall and Steve Elliot both had a hand in digging up the stuff from Japan, and Mia Iwasaki assisted by translating the material that wasn't in English.

Fortunately, the discussions on the forum had started before that was available, but I doubt anyone would've believed us (the fiddlers looking for practical and easy - and not that it matters if anyone believes you if something works - it works anyway). The gloms of experts who have shown up later were never around when warren was taking constant criticism for saying that he's planed without tearout since the late 70s.

[Wilbur Pan]

Thanks for the shout out, Steve. I really appreciate it, and I know Kees does as well. It was great working with Kees on the article.

The translation of the video was a fun project. Mia Iwasaki did a word-for-word translation, and I then edited that translation into language that made sense for woodworkers. It was a lot like what Don Williams, Michele Pietryka-Pagán & Philippe Lafargue did for the Roubo book, although on a much smaller scale. After that, it was some time spent editing the video to add the subtitles. I like to think that the subtitled version of the video is helpful, since not all woodworkers speak Japanese. Neither do I.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Congrats Kees and Wilbur.

Question for Kees, should your name be written as 'Kees van der Heiden' or what PWW penned?

[Kees Heiden]

Yes my name is Kees van der Heiden. But I understand they got the capitals wrong. It is a very Dutch name.

[Metod Alif]

From Fine Woodworking #1, p.22 (Fall 1975):
"The chip breaker should be set back 1/64 to 1/16 inch from the cutting edge of the iron. The closer setting would be used for the very fine shavings on finish work and for hard-to-plane woods. Setting the chip breaker back 1/32 to 1/16 inch would be for rough work and large shavings. The combined effect of the narrow opening in the plane bottom and the close setting of the chip breaker causes the shaving to make such a sharp bend that it has no chance of propagating a tear-out ahead of the iron, and leaving a rough surface. � "

This information was not new even then. Also, the K-K video contains no info about the effect of the mouth opening. It only confirms some of the old knowledge. Maybe now we can have videos for many other facts of woodworking and then again argue who saw them first.
PWW could acknowledge the article from FWW and other printed sources as well.
I do appreciate the efforts and congratulate for being published.
Best wishes,
Metod

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks for the congratulations. But I don't quite get the point of your post. 1/64" is about 0.4mm. That's too far away for the caprion to do its job properly. But I agree when you say that the K&K video didn't learn us anything new. Heck, the knowledge is 250 years old! The strength of the K&K video is its strong educational effect. And that in fact was the original purpose of the video: Education.

[Chris Griggs]

From Fine Woodworking #1, p.22 (Fall 1975):
"The chip breaker should be set back 1/64 to 1/16 inch from the cutting edge of the iron. The closer setting would be used for the very fine shavings on finish work and for hard-to-plane woods. Setting the chip breaker back 1/32 to 1/16 inch would be for rough work and large shavings. The combined effect of the narrow opening in the plane bottom and the close setting of the chip breaker causes the shaving to make such a sharp bend that it has no chance of propagating a tear-out ahead of the iron, and leaving a rough surface. � "

This information was not new even then. Also, the K-K video contains no info about the effect of the mouth opening. It only confirms some of the old knowledge. Maybe now we can have videos for many other facts of woodworking and then again argue who saw them first.
PWW could acknowledge the article from FWW and other printed sources as well.
I do appreciate the efforts and congratulate for being published.
Best wishes,
Metod

Huh? So you had this figured out in 1975? Kees didn't help contribute to your understanding of this when you posted the below thread on June 13th, 2012.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ers-and-angles

Perhaps it wasn't your intent to give a back handed congrats by poopooing the efforts prior to complementing them, but that sure is how it came across.

Of course, its not new. And while I don't disagree that a reference to old texts could be a valuable addition, I don't think its a requirement either. Can you imagine if that was done for every dovetail or sharpening article that was ever written?

By the way, as old as this knowledge is, its worth noting that both George Wilson and David Charlesworth (who I think we can all agree have a wealth of knowledge and experience) stated that they didn't start using this technique until the KK video resurfaced and Dave, Kees, and others starting talking about it... and while I do believe it likely that there were/are lots of accomplished woodworkers, who have no presence on forums or media, doing this all along, I also think its pretty clear a lot of woodworkers (novice and master) had written the technique off.

I for one am very glad to see that this getting published and believe it will help enlighten many woodworkers about how to use the chipbreaker to its full effect.

[Daniel Rode]

The educational aspect is they key, IMO. That this was known by some or or by many 25 years ago or 250 years ago is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. That people take the time and effort to document and teach the technique today is what matters to me. The world is not full of people highly skilled in the use of hand planes anymore. It's a small few that can pass on the finer points of hand work.

Honestly, it's like finding money. Something I already have can do finer work with nothing more than a careful adjustment? Win!

Thanks for the congratulations. But I don't quite get the point of your post. 1/64" is about 0.4mm. That's too far away for the caprion to do its job properly. But I agree when you say that the K&K video didn't learn us anything new. Heck, the knowledge is 250 years old! The strength of the K&K video is its strong educational effect. And that in fact was the original purpose of the video: Education.

[Chris Griggs]

The educational aspect is they key, IMO. That this was known by some or or by many 25 years ago or 250 years ago is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. That people take the time and effort to document and teach the technique today is what matters to me. The world is not full of people highly skilled in the use of hand planes anymore. It's a small few that can pass on the finer points of hand work.

Honestly, it's like finding money. Something I already have can do finer work with nothing more than a careful adjustment? Win!

Exactly! You put this much better than I did.

[george wilson]

But,you must realize I was making instruments almost exclusively through the 50's 60's,70's and half way through the 80's when I became the toolmaker. I was doing more scraping than planing on instrument woods. Violins are planed with toothed irons after carving their rough shaped arches. These blades are not like the finely toothed blades on cabinet maker's planes. They consist of small indented grooves about 1/32" to 1/16" apart across the face of the irons. They sort of "grate" curly maple without tearing it.Then,scraping is resorted to for refining of the contours. Plain blades were used on the spruce tops where no figure was present.

When planing flat back instrument wood with difficult figure,I just planed straight ACROSS the grain,then scraped it smoother afterwards.

So,I just wasn't concerned with the processes used by the cabinet maker. I never made a lot of furniture. I was totally consumed with making musical instruments. I periodically made instruments on the side as toolmaker.

[Chris Griggs]

That makes sense George.

I hope my point about you an DC learning it recently was received as intended. I was only trying to illuminate the fact that despite being old knowledge this is information that could potentially be helpful to woodworkers of all skill levels. Even though it wasn't relevant to what you did in your career, I remember how enthusiastic both you and DC were when folks like Dave started trying and succeeding in actively teaching people how to do it correctly...I think your and DCs enthusiasm spoke volumes about it and the potential value of PWW publishing article fully dedicated to the topic.

I've only been woodworking about 5 years. I remember when I started using handplanes seeing a number of references to setting the chipbreaker "very close to the edge", but nothing about what the meant exactly or what it did. What I did run across much more often was a number of mainstream woodworkers saying things like....

.....the CB was only there so maker could get away with using thinner blade

....or that it should be set at least a 1/32 or farther from the edge so you can close up the mouth without clogging

....or even flat out that the CB does nothing to prevent tearout.

I can say that for every vague reference I might readily find to using the CB to prevent tearout I can likely find at least two that flat out contradict that or say to set the CB a good bit farther back than is needed to actually prevent tearout. And this wasn't just bloggers and people on forums...it was articles published by highly respected woodworkers too.

Because of this, when folks started talking about it in the last two years it was REALLY eye opening for me. So I guess I get kinda miffed when people (not you obviously) get condescending about folks who are enthusiastic over learning it for the first time.

[Sam Stephens]

I'm very appreciative to information like this trickling out. I sometimes feel we are in the Dark Ages (of hand tools) just waiting for the Renaissance/Enlightenment to rediscover old truths. Well I guess that's a bit dramatic....but anyways. After stumbling on David's article, battling curly woods and grain reversal w/ a BD plane was a breeze. They could be finished right off the plane.