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Thread: Blade adjustment on cigar shaves

  1. #1
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    Blade adjustment on cigar shaves

    I know there have been a few threads lately about spokeshaves in general, and some about cigar shaves in particular, and at least one a while back about sharpening the blade on cigar shaves, but I don't recall anything recently about adjusting the blade on a cigar shave. You can find some discussion of the topic at various sites, but I found that some of it isn't very helpful. I have no idea if my technique is "right," but it works for me, at least using the Millers Falls #1.

    Spokeshaves are sometimes described as equivalent to small planes. For a cigar shave that analogy goes only so far, but I'll start out with that frame of reference and refer to the flat section on the outside of the body the "sole," the leading edge of it (i.e., the edge furthest away from the blade) the "toe," and the other edge the "heel." (No idea if that's the traditional terminology.) To get very fine shavings, I first set the edge of the blade so that it is coplanar with the sole, and then rotate it just a bit toward the sole, which moves the edge a skosh higher than the plane in which the sole lies (i.e., higher with the shave held so the sole is on top). I've tried to put a number to "skosh" using feeler gauges, but getting a number is difficult for a reason I'll discuss in a minute. The picture shows my Millers Falls #1 with the blade in that position.

    Notice that the mouth looks fairly wide the way I have the blade adjusted. Here's where the analogy to planes or other shaves with adjustable mouths falls apart. With the cylindrical geometry of a cigar shave, tightening the mouth also increases the distance between the edge of the blade and the plane in which the sole lies, with the result that tightening the mouth actually produces thicker shavings.

    On occasion, when I'm trying to shave a very tight concave surface, I'll adjust the blade in the opposite direction from what I've described above, so that the edge of the blade is below the plane of the sole, although the retaining screws limit how far you can go in that direction. If you adjust the blade as I described above, when you first start a cut on a flat workpiece, only the edge of the blade and the toe of the sole will contact the wood. If you adjust the blade in the opposite direction, the edge of the blade and the heel of the sole contact the wood. Because the heel is closer to the edge of the blade, you can get into a bit tighter curve. At least it seems to work that way for me.

    One more observation that I alluded to earlier: If you set the blade so that it's coplanar with the sole, in theory it shouldn't cut at all if you hold it so that the sole is flat against the wood. In practice, there really is no "zero" point, at least not on any Millers Falls #1 that I've ever seen, because the sole is slightly crowned rather than perfectly flat. I'm inclined to think that was intentional, but maybe not -- When George Wilson made a couple of blades for me a while back, he noted that there seems to have been a fair amount of variability in the manufacturing process for the MF #1 bodies. The diameter can vary a bit from one tool to another, and George even noticed some differences between the two ends of the same shave body. So it's certainly possible that the crown in the sole is a manufacturing artifact. At any rate, that slight crown is why it's hard to put a number to the skosh I mentioned earlier.

    IMG_20140124_194724_276.jpg
    Last edited by Michael Ray Smith; 02-01-2014 at 11:19 AM.
    Michael Ray Smith

  2. #2
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    Oh, one other thing about these tools. For the longest time, I thought of them as being in the category of low angle spokeshaves, and there are some similarities (e.g., a cigar shave is bevel-up), but I always noticed that they are far less prone than low angle shaves to cause split-out. As I have the blade set in the picture above, the angle between the sole and the flat section on the outside of the blade is about 30 degrees. Assuming the bevel on the inside of the blade is 25 degress, that makes a 55 degree angle of attack --not at all low angle. Of course, like a draw knife, the actual angle of attack depends on the way it's held.
    Michael Ray Smith

  3. #3
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    How is your new blade holding up in edge retention? Those blades are more trouble than they are worth to make! I had to buy a piece of drill rod about 7/8" diameter(I can't remember the size now). Then I had to drill it out and then single point bore it out to get the inside curve to mate up to the body of the shave. Then radius the back edge and harden and draw it,polish and grind the edge on. More trouble than making a flat blade.

    I am sure it would be quicker to stamp one out of flat stock,but for 1 or 2 blades,it wasn't worth the trouble to make tooling to do that. Easier to just turn them out of round drill rod (01).

    My cigar shaves look like the flat area in front of the blade was hand filed in,and not to great flatness or accuracy.
    Last edited by george wilson; 02-01-2014 at 3:27 PM.

  4. #4
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    They're doing fine on edge retention. I've always found that these blades need to be honed fairly frequently, but the ones you made hold up at least as well as the originals, probably better. I expect they'll last many more years.

    Is it possible that someone really did take a hand file to your cigar shaves? One of the things I've seen on MF #1's out in the wild is that people tried to sharpen them by putting a bevel on the outside of the blade. The result is that the edge of the blade won't even contact the wood, and I can imagine someone taking a file to the body, trying to make it work after they screwed up the blade.
    Last edited by Michael Ray Smith; 02-01-2014 at 6:00 PM.
    Michael Ray Smith

  5. #5
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    I have 2 that are both filed. Yours looks filed too.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    Yours looks filed too.
    Yes, it's quite possible.
    Michael Ray Smith

  7. #7
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    Looks like your spoke shave has been altered. I have a reproduction. It is set for a fine shaving. Getting it to work is a matter of having the proper degree of rotation when using. It took me a little practice but I am quite happy with it. Here is photo of it. Sorry for the blurry image. Cigar 1.jpg
    Last edited by Robert G Brown; 02-02-2014 at 3:25 AM. Reason: To Clarify

  8. #8
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    You just have your blade turned around the other way don't you,Robert? The way you have it turned makes it into a round bottom spokeshave. Or,am I missing something here?

  9. #9
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    Here is mine with a decently filed flat in front of the mouth. I should note that the whole body is nickeled everywhere but the flat, which is raw .

    Using a reproduction to determine the manufacturing steps of the originals is probably a mistake.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by James Taglienti; 02-02-2014 at 10:00 AM.

  10. #10
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    James,yours looks like the neatest flat I have seen. But,even yours looks like the maker took the extra time to draw file the surface. Those look like draw filed lines. My shaves still have the raw file marks,and are not especially accurate.

  11. #11
    George:
    The Kelly (?) reproduction is made without the flat and with slightly larger handles than the original. The round body is simply left round.

  12. #12
    It appears that the vast majority of these shaves have been filed by owners; it was really tough to find one that matched the patent drawing (#293651). Dealers usually make a big deal about an unfiled mouth and/or lots of red paint remaining on the big flat across the body (throat, more or less).

  13. #13
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    Not that I am an expert on these cigar shaves but don't they have a flat so they function as a flat shave. Then,you can turn the blade around to make them into a round shave for doing hollow work? I had just thought that in manufacture the makers had simply found it more expedient to let the workmen spend a few minutes filing the flat area,rather that setting up to mill them flat. I say this only because in my limited experience with these cigar shaves,I haven't seen one that wasn't filed.

    Perhaps as manufactured,the factory did not mill enough metal away,and owners found it necessary to enlarge the flat area?

    Personally,I have never been able to get excited by these cigar shaves,and haven't really studied them much. I have a few,but can't recall how I got them. Probably in some forgotten flea market trip.

  14. #14
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    I just bought a spokeshave hoping it will help with some of the same work as the MF Cigar type shave. I am also trying to figure out whether a cigar shave will do things the shave I just bought want. It sounds like the blade adjustment on the MF cigar shave does two things at the same time, moves the blade a set distance from the radius of the circular shave so it removes more or less wood, opens up the chip exit, mouth. I am curious how well the two screws work for securing the blade and if they tend to get in the way?

    I bought a Master shave from Woodjoy Tools. The Master is a little like the Veritas Low angle spokeshave in that the rest in front of the blade can be rotated. One side of the rest (toe piece) is flat and the other is curved. I did not think "Cigar Shaves" had that feature? The curved "toe piece" on the Woodjoy tool is shaped a little more like a cigar shave than the LV shave. Like the LV shave the Woodjoy tool has two sets of screws for adjusting the blade depth, one set of screws serves to lock the blade at the level set by the first set of screws. The adjusting screws on the Woodjoy tool are recessed into the body except for the main blade depth screws which are low profile.

    It seems that these shaves have a limit on how tight they can reach into corners or curves. The limit has to do with the blade not reaching out to the full radius of the toe piece, unless maybe the blade is "over" extended on the adjustment screws. I am interested in tools for making Windsor chairs which may have some difficult to reach areas.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 02-02-2014 at 2:11 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    James,yours looks like the neatest flat I have seen.
    Ditto. I've seen a lot of MF#1's (got sort of addicted to them for a while, but now I'm down to one), and that's the nicest one I've seen.
    Michael Ray Smith

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