Operating environment?

[Don Corbeil]

I wanted to ask a basic yet essential question about what's considered an acceptable (not optimal) environment to put a laser. Once I decide to go forward I certainly want to protect this investment, as best I can. I'm not going for the desktop models, as I want ample work area and some power. So, I've been narrowing it down between a speedy 300 (80W) and an VLS 6.60 (60W).


I do not have an ideal environment for the laser - that is, a climate controlled room inside the house to place this machine in. The only practical place I have to put this sized machine is in our attached garage (no vehicles). The good points are that it has low (and steady) humidity levels and has little dust and dirt infiltration. The bad points is that it has fluctuations in temperature. I live at 7000' in southwest colorado, and there can be significant fluctuations in temperature outside. These are somewhat mitigated by being attached to the house, and I can set up auxilary heat in there, but I'm not sure I want to be running aux heat 24/7 when I'm not using the machine. I could preheat the environment before turning on the machine, if that is a useful idea. I don't plan on putting this system into heavy use, at least right now. I know that aside from dust and dirt, temperatures are critical to life of laser tube.

I know many of you have a dedicated shop that is climate controlled (envious!), which would be perfect for this. In the absence of this however, have some of you made it work in an attached garage (or similar) operating environment? Or is this just a bad idea? If it just doesn't make sense to put an expensive piece of equipment like this in there, I may rethink what I set my sights on, or wait until I add inside space (long time). If it's not a crazy idea, what steps could one take to minimize potential problems?

[Mark Sipes]

Real simple.......manufacturer recommendations..

http://www.troteclaser.com/en-US-US/...onditions.aspx

[Bert Kemp]

If your laser is going to sit in a room were the temp can drop below freezing add enough anti freeze to your coolant to keep it from freezing.

[Dan Hintz]

If your laser is going to sit in a room were the temp can drop below freezing add enough anti freeze to your coolant to keep it from freezing.

The two machines listed are RF-based cartridges... air-cooled, so no water to worry about.



Don,

As with all sensitive electronics, keeping them in a climate-controlled area is best. Yes, they'll survive in a much wider range of temperatures, but you will shorten the life of any component that has to endure wild temperature swings day in and day out... dropping to below freezing during the night only to be well above 100F during processing is not a good thing long-term, as I'm sure you can imagine. You can get away with it, as some here will attest to, but when I pour that much money into a machine, I want to make sure it's going to last as long as possible. It's your choice.

[Mike Null]

I agree with Dan. I'm in my 17th year of engraving and have experienced no failures with either my ULS (9 yrs) or my Trotec (7 years and still going strong) in a climate controlled environment.

[Mike Lassiter]

Same as Mike. Our laser approaching 6 years old in climate controlled environment with no problems. Material kept there to. ULS has required temp range for machine.
After investing tens of thousands on our laser it would just be dumb to NOT try to protect it and make it last.

[Michael Hunter]

My Epilog has run for 10 years in an uncontrolled environment* and is still on its original tube.

I'm lucky in that in the southern UK we don't usually get extremes of temperature.
If I have warning of a very cold snap coming I will put a 360W strip heater under the machine overnight but otherwise the machine has to take what the weather brings.

* Poorly insulated wooden workshop.

[Jim Good]

Sounds like Don would love to have a machine in a controlled environment but it isn't possible. If the option existed, I think we all know the proper answer. Sounds like the real question is, can it be done? Can he successfully run his laser from his garage where his machine will see extreme temperature changes. How much loss of life could he expect?

[Frank barry]

hi I work from my garage and what I have done is made the area where my machines are much warmer and use the rest for storage all it takes is a hew bits of 2x4 and some insulation a few sheets of 8x4 and your sorted cheers Frank

[Dave Sheldrake]

I'm with the Mikes and Dan, to be honest the minimal cost of stabilising the temperature may well pay dividends on machine reliability. That may just mean small heaters running 24/7 (say a 1Kw fan heater etc)

As to the how much shorter will the lifetime be, impossible to answer without doing a LOT of math and having exact data to work on but in general laser resonators don't like temperature swings, the more stable you can keep it the better the output from the resonator will be.

cheers

Dave

[Joe Hillmann]

Since you don't park cars in the garage how hard and expensive would it be to insulate and block off part of it that is near the house and then tap into the house furnace to keep it warm in there? My guess is that an 8'x8' room could be built for under $500. When you figure the cost of the machine that may be money well spent. Plus that means you can comfortably use the laser in the winter.

Edit: Also how cold does it get in your area? You can get away with fewer precautions if freezing is the coldest you see each year, as compared to if -40 is how cold it gets.

[Glen Monaghan]

My guess is that an 8'x8' room could be built for under $500.

Depends on how you get it built... I need a 33' long, 8' high uninsulated non-load-bearing interior wall built and 3 electrical circuits run with outlets and ceiling lights to create my new shop area and decided that it would be good to add a 5'x5' half bath as well. Figuring it would take me months to do it myself, I got quotes that came in around $18,000! Thinking I'll still have someone put up the wall so I don't have to handle all that drywall, but looks like I'm going to have to plug away at the rest as I can make time. The plumbing work rates were dumbfounding... I guess when you really need your toilet working, you'll pay up...

[Mike Lassiter]

Everybody has their own limits of risk and wiliness to take chances. To spend thousands on a piece of equipment and in essence put it in a barn is hard for me to understand. If it wasn't electronics like the laser, say a metal lath I can see it. In fact I have a Smithy 3 in one machine sitting in an unheated building I had to build to put it in before it arrived. This is entirely difference from something that has a need to be maintained in a fairly narrow temperature and humidity range. Some manage to do it without problems it seems. I had to have a building built for our laser. It was understood from the start that I needed to do it to even have a place for the laser. So, about $11K for the building and wiring and insulating and blower I put in - and all my labor expect we purchased the building delivered on our land. The laser cost $33K in 2008 with a 4 month build time. Since have added a second 75 watt cartridge for another $12K. Now I realize not everyone has a $45K laser, but regardless you should want to do all you can to protect your investment.

You wouldn't buy a $10K car and not insure it, or maintain it. My point of view is if reason and caution suggest the laser needs "this" in order to preform at it's best and longest longevity why would you be willing to risk doing less? Not trying to step on anyone's toes or offend anyone. It just doesn't make sense to me to want something so expensive and expect it to work properly for as long as possible without trying to protect it. Whatever you need to do should be apart of getting the laser. If you need heat and likely cooling depending on where you live that is as much apart of what you need to expect to do and do right as getting an exhaust blower and providing proper power for the equipment. Why wouldn't you?

[Don Corbeil]

Thanks for your responses. I needed to back up (from my search for an appropriate system) and take a hard look at what environment I have to offer.


Looking at the Trotec recommended operating conditions that Mike posted, I can see that in the summer, I should be OK. We have a very pleasant climate here during that time, without extremes. The summer outdoor high temps around here rarely go into the 90's, and the lows are usually in the 50's and 60's. Typically through the summer there is a swing in temperature of 30 degrees or so in 24 hrs, but those swings are not mirrored in the garage environment. It is much more regulated, and swings would probably be more in the range of 10-15 degrees, and pretty close to the recommended range. It's also easy to cool down with a little ventilation.


The winter will be more problemmatic, and this is where I worry about affecting the life of the system. Not only the laser tube, but the fact that cold temps will make the oil and grease more viscous are one of those subtle yet cumulative effects on the life of a machine. Even though there aren't extreme cold temps in the garage, It would certainly require supplemental heat while operating. I may need to drop a thermometer in there to get a more accurate idea of temp ranges, but I'd say temps usually are in the 40's for a low, and 50's for a high, with humidity levels pretty steady between 10-20%. I know it has never got to freezing in there, even when well below zero outside.


One of my main questions for the winter is that if the laser is not in operation, is it OK to 'store' the machine in temps that are between 40 and 50 degrees? I would never fire it up without heating the area to recommended levels, but is there any known detriment to the machine to be held in this temperature range when not in use for periods of time? My wife and I occasionally travel for a week or two in the winter, and leaving an auxiliary heater on is not ideal.


I must say it's interesting to see Trotec's recommended range for humidity at 40-60%, and yet condensation is named as a major factor to be vigilant of. 40% humidity around here is downright tropical! I suppose this recommended humidity range is not an issue when the temp is climate controlled and rarely drops to the dew point. I don't think I've ever seen condensation in the garage, even in the winter.

[Mike Lassiter]

Operating
Temperature
50ºF (10ºC) to 95ºF (35º C) capable
73ºF (22ºC) to 77ºF (25º C) for best performance
Storage Temperature
50ºF (10ºC) to 95ºF (35º C)
Operating Humidity
Non-condensing

Cut and paste from my laser users manual (ULS - ILS model)