Domestic vs Commercial

[Steve Crawford]

Well I've gone and done it... I've placed my order for a Trotec Speedy 300, and an Atmos Duo system. As you can imagine, I'm very excited. So right now I'm starting to get my marketing plans and strategies for promotion together as well as planning some prototypes for in-house products etc. I'm UK based in case that has a bearing on the replies to my questions.

The question I keep coming back to is how to split my focus on domestic and commercial clients and the marketing to both. So my question to you (if you don't mind me asking?), is how do you decide on that split, and how much percentage wise is the split for your work? I don't have a massive marketing budget, so want best bang for my buck if I can get it.

Some of the markets I'm interested in are; jewellery makers, craft items and wedding gifts and similar. I have also purchased the rotary fitting, so glassware and sports bottles etc. Can they do mugs?

I'm currently assuming commercial work is probably higher volume and lower margins and domestic work is probably mostly one-offs, and I'm assuming higher margin, and the territory you are in may be substantially different from mine, but at this stage any kind of yardstick measurement to base my strategy on is better than guesswork or my own assumptions.

Thank you in anticipation, Steve

[Tony saunders]

Hi Steve,

Congratulations on your purchase. I personally think that you have made an excellent first business choice when you went for the Speedy 300… irrespective of what work you get in, you want a reliable machine.

If I had a choice, I would deal with commercial every time. It's more of an arms-length thing and you almost always are dealing with a contractual obligation in writing (proper T&C's etc). Don't get me wrong, I've done some excellent jobs for individuals (still do), but I've also spent a lot of time with some small jobs for individuals that expected the earth and, after you've delivered, moaned about trivial issues. You will get this from companies too, but the consumer laws benefit Joe in the street far more than a company who should know better when they don't spec the job right. Joe Blow can have unrealistic expectations and the law will sort of back him - even when he's being plain daft…

I don't do rotary (yet) so can't advise on that side of things.

I have engraved glass with a laser but it's not brilliant. Even with soap / wet newspaper etc it is only 'okay' in my view. It's not the best tool for the job. Details text etc isn't that good. That may be me and my lack of experience using the laser with glass though. Have a read on here - I'm sure there will be plenty about glass / rotary engraving. I have never done any mugs either.

I would suggest going to a few trade shows and looking what's out there, and who the commercial players are. Try to find a niche (if possible) that isn't adequately covered, or do what others do better or perhaps cheaper. Craft items may be hard to get into because it's probably one of the first things people think when they have a laser. Lots of scrapbook material sellers already. I know someone who does this, but they were already in that game and then purchased a laser - rather than the other way around.

I don't actively advertise (currently), but have a website (not a great one either), but I mostly attract commercial work through that and word of mouth. The individual stuff is less because I'm not on the high street and don't pick up passing trade of any sort (I'm well off the beaten track - literally!). The website is an absolute MUST. It works for you 24/7/365 and is the cheapest advert you can have IMHO.

Commercial need not be high volume. I specialise in lower volume, high-value. I'm not set up for 10,000 widgets and don't really want to be working at the same place as the price bandits that have no loyalty and will ditch you for the slightest cheaper deal at the last minute - then come raging back and expect you to go cheaper next time. I have a price, I rarely vary it unless there is a good commercial reason. Once you start low, you will struggle mightily to get your price higher going forward. Easy to be a busy idiot. Remember, just because you're working and 'busy' doesn't mean you are making money. Better to be choosy and build slowly than create a rod for your own back.

Also, manufacturing means often speaking to buyers who have a job to get your services for as little as possible. Be firm and fair but always remember they are not your friend and you don't need their work UNLESS it's also beneficial to your business. How you value that is down to you, but be careful of thinking that if say, Apple want your services, you still shouldn't work for peanuts UNLESS you can take advantage of the association. They may not allow you to mention that you have a relationship with them - so it's all but useless from an advertising perspective.

Having said all that, you'll take on work that doesn't make you much, but you may like it; or like the company; or feel sorry for the guy… or any number of other reasons . As long 90% of your clients aren't like that, you will get a feel for what is worth doing over time. Initially, you can treat some jobs as a learning exercise. People don't pay you to learn, but if you do the job cheap because you want the chance to engrave, say Corian - then it's a good way of getting access to scraps to practice on.

Everyone wants to engrave 20 oak boards and be paid £400 each… those jobs will come and make your day. Mostly, you'll be somewhere between bottom dollar and relatively happy. Just learn to avoid the very bottom end if you want to stay in business… work out your costs carefully and know what you need to make each day / week. That includes replacing the laser at some time -not just power, lights and wages etc.

Hope that helps…

Cheers
Tony

[Jerome Stanek]

There are some good topics on the Shopbot forum about selling items both retail and wholesale. use eugene king as your search

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Steve,

Good choice of machine

Business to business sales have less issues as well as not having the CE requirements so much over here. Less money per job but over all a LOT less paperwork too

cheers

Dave

[Bob A Miller]

Steve

Just waiting for a speedy 400 myself... Interesting topic you raised.

Bob

[Steve Crawford]

Many Thanks Tony, that's really helpful.
I actually don't know if you can even do mugs? It was just pure speculation.

Cheers, Steve

[Robert Tepper]

Congratulations on your Trotec purchase. Your decision of which way to market your business will become more evident to you after a period of time and the jobs that you choose. Keep an open mind and don't get in over your head.

Robert

[Mike Null]

Congratulations on your purchase. Since you haven't owned other machines you may not realize just how "bullet proof" that baby is.

I run a home based business and try to focus on commercial accounts. I accept retail business but I really turn down more than I take as I don't want the traffic in my home. You will also find that retail customers take up at least 2 or 3 times as much time as commercial accounts. Even if I had a retail store I would probably close at 5 PM and on weekends.

I am also able to limit my inventory by focusing on commercial accounts.

[Steve Crawford]

Thanks for all your advice, some interesting points for my contemplation. My equipment all arrived today, along with the upgraded Atmos system (they supplied an Atmos Duo for the same price as the standard one!), so I'm very happy with the deal I got. When I've had it all commissioned and had my training next Monday I'll be rearing to go!

cheers, Steve.

[Tony saunders]

Thanks for all your advice, some interesting points for my contemplation. My equipment all arrived today, along with the upgraded Atmos system (they supplied an Atmos Duo for the same price as the standard one!), so I'm very happy with the deal I got. When I've had it all commissioned and had my training next Monday I'll be rearing to go!

cheers, Steve.

Very pleased for you Steve... I suggest you make an effort to do something this weekend .. Maybe take the missus out somewhere nice because (a) it will be a very long weekend if you sit at home and (b) your missus will not see you for a while once you start lasering

Some questions to cover on your training ...

Dunno what you're planning to use for your graphics but Coreldraw really is the bees knees.... If you
are already familiar with it, then great. If not, I suggest you get a demo version and/ or consider buying it.

Among other things, you may want to ask about...

(1) Know how to clean your lens and mirror(s)
(2) understand how to raster (pictures) and cut or use vectors to engrave...
(3) Get some test materials in ready for your training... Acrylic / wood / mdf / cork / felt / fabric / etc... You can go through the materials on the day and set up the material database for your machine. You will likely get a sample pack with your laser but I had a few materials ready...
(4) If you are using Corel (or whatever package) ... Find out how to use different colours to represent different cuts and engraving parameters with your laser / jobcontrol. Normally, Red is cut, Black is engrave... But you can set up 16 colours to represent different settings.. For example, blue could be a shallower engraving setting, or perhaps yellow could be a light cut that doesn't go right through, but rather scores a line on paper (for example)... It's very powerful.

have a good weekend in the meantime

cheers
T

[Steve Crawford]

Thanks a lot for the advice Tony and all the other contributors to this thread. This is a really great and supportive forum.

Cheers, Steve