Noobie advice for starting out

[David Guyette]

Hello all, I am new to the forum, but have a couple questions I think you may be able to help me out with.

My wife would like to start laser engraving glassware and various small items, and would like to tie it into a small home-based business she already has. The problem is.....neither of us have ever done it before.

My main questions are:

How difficult is it to start learning the process? We have been researching everything we can, and from what I see it doesn't seem fairly difficult to start, but I figured I would start asking professionals here for the true answer. I plan on buying a lot of cheap media to practice on, like anodized aluminum plates, thrift store glassware, cheap acrylic templates, etc.

Also,

What kind of laser would one recommend for a new learner?

A little background on this, I would love to get her a good machine that she can expand into once she gets going, I have been looking at the Boss Laser LS 1620, priced at around $7000 for the complete package we would need to start up completely turn-key. Is this a decent choice for both quality and ease of use for a beginner? She wants to do glassware, so I know I would need to get her something with the required depth, as well as a rotary stand (not sure of the differences between chuck and roller, another question...).

Is there a better choice in that price range?


I really appreciate any input or advice as I am ready to do this for her and just want to do it right.

[Scott Shepherd]

If she wants to get into glassware, you're looking at the wrong machine. You need a sandblaster. The sandblast does a superior job to the laser on glass. Plus, it's a lot less expensive to get into than lasering.

[Darryl Hazen]

I agree with Scott. Sandblasting does a much better job on glass.

[John Bion]

Ditto with Scott and Darryl. The quality of finish on glass is chalk and cheese.

[David Guyette]

Ok, thanks for the replies. She also wants to be able to work with other media such as anodized aluminum and acrylics, so i'm thinking the laser would be the best bet to be able to work with all of them.

[David Somers]

David,

I don't own a laser yet. Someday hopefully!!! But in the meantime, what I have seen and heard from everyone here is that the sandblaster reallllllly is better for etching glass. A quick search on the forum should net you a bunch of example discussions and photos to show the results. But.....what you may want to do since she is interested in other media as well would be to look at a laser engraver, and a sandblaster. The laser can be used for her other media interests, and it can also be used to cut the resists you will use on your glass when you sandblast it. When they say a sandblaster is less expensive they are not kidding. They are a pittance compared to what you will spend on the laser. Harbor Freight and other sources like that will have simple units that can do what you want.

If you can give folks here an idea as to the volume of glass you want to do perhaps they can suggest some makes and models, since a lot of folks here do this in their businesses as well?

And, if you can give them an idea as to the materials and volumes you would like to do in terms of laser cutting and laser engraving they can help you more with that as well? They may also be able to help you with any misconceptions you may have about a laser and what it can do for you.

Lastly, you might show what country, and if you are in the US what state you are in and folks can use that to be more specific with their suggestions. you can put that in your profile so it shows on all your posts. And of course, once you are the proud owner of a laser and a sand throwing device be sure to list that along with your other major tools. Then when you or your wife ask questions folks know right away what they need to consider for gear. Saves time.

Pretty exciting!!! Hope this works out excellently for you two!!!

Dave

[David Guyette]

Right, sorry.

I'm in Colorado but subject to change as i'm active duty military.

She wants to engrave anodized aluminum and glassware with unit/military related logos and graphics. Not a huge operation, really just local here and there. I want to get a nice setup for her in case she chooses to expand.

[Dan Hintz]

She wants to engrave anodized aluminum and glassware with unit/military related logos and graphics.

Make sure she gets the proper permissions for each logo... you don't want to explain to your CO how your wife ran afoul of the law.

[Scott Shepherd]

Ok, thanks for the replies. She also wants to be able to work with other media such as anodized aluminum and acrylics, so i'm thinking the laser would be the best bet to be able to work with all of them.

While a good theory on paper, that's not a good theory on producing quality products. Glass is not a good material for the lasers, in general (there's always exceptions), and when she gets that order for 100 glass with a logo on it, finds out that they vary from glass to glass, she has to throw about 40% of them in the trash can, and the rotary attachment takes forever to engrave a glass (the larger the logo, the slower it's going to go), you'll be rethinking this conversation.

If you plan to do glass, save up and buy a sandblaster and a laser and do all the non glass stuff on the laser and the glass stuff on the sandblaster. Thinking that a laser is a great tool to do glass work and make money is a flawed theory, in my opinion. At best, it's an okay tool that does a fair job. We try not to deliver "fair" jobs to our customers. I haven't lasered a glass in years now, I don't think, and I don't have any plans to ever do it again.

[David Guyette]

Make sure she gets the proper permissions for each logo... you don't want to explain to your CO how your wife ran afoul of the law.

Yeah, tracking that. Unit insignia are generally not copywrited, and military branch insignias/badges/etc are open source.


So does anyone have any input on the machine or tips on how to start engraving/etching?

[David Somers]

David,

A good first step might be to simply do a quick search on Youtube for Sandblasting glass. That will show you the process. Nothing like a video to give you a quick overview.

Basically though, the process involves making a resist. Something that can stand up to the abrasive sand. And normally it has an adhesive back. You cut your design in the resist, with a laser engraver for example, apply it to the glass, put it in the sandblasting cabinet and shoot an abrasive at it that will eat away the exposed glass. The longer you shoot it, the deeper your etching goes until you have a dribble glass. (he he) Depending on the setup the sand is reused, falling into a collection bin to be picked up by the compressor again until its abrasive properties are shot. You can use the cabinet to etch other things as well by using different abrasives. The setup is normally not that large and consists of the cabinet and an air compressor and your supply of abrasives. The laser makes an excellent tool for cutting the resist, plus all the other things you are aware it can do.

The combo would really be quite powerful. For example, your wife may find that along with glasses and mugs she can use stone and other materials that blast nicely and sand blast awards and other displays. It can be used to abrade metal decoratively and remove corrosion. It can be used to blast wood and create a unique effect on pieces by abrading away the soft summer layers of wood leaving a deeply striated surface. Combine that with the ability of the laser to work with wood and acrylic and paper and whatnot and you have quite the combination on hand. Do a fast search on Grizzly or Harbor Freight and you will see the price ranges involved just to get you thinking in the ball park.

you may also be able to find a decent used sand blasting cabinet. You might need to swap out a badly abraded view port and some gaskets, but those generally are inexpensive.

I have helped friends with blasting things before but have never tried to do it myself so I am the wrong person to give advice about brands or models or capacity. Though capacity seems to be based on the dimensions of the things you want to do. You might need just a small to mid sized cabinet for glass work. Midsized would allow you to put a number of pieces in there, and grab each one to be abraded one at a time without having to open the cabinet. Again, someone who has actually done production work like this can help you more than I can.

[Matthew Grant]

Hi,

I'll answer your original question. It's dead easy. So although your glass results may not be as good as sandblasting, it's essentially a job of connecting the rotary and clicking go. The upside is that you can immediately change your design and cut a new one. For the rotary, I'd say it's a couple hours practicing on old wine bottles or throwaways of the glassware you plan to use, and you're up and running.

Same with flat glass. Get a couple spares to tune power and speed, and within the same evening you'll be dialed in and cutting your final design. If you don't want to put a week into cutting masks and sandblasting, the laser gives you a lot of flexibiity and will give very adequate results for gifts.

Or, you could laser your sandblasting masks. Still get the flexibility of clicking "go", but you can get the nice finish as well.

Just my 2c.

If you're looking at low-cost lasers, at least get one that supports Corel. The Moshidraw units (<1k$) have a crappy control board which gives them their bad name. At least the next step up in control board (2-3k$, can use Corel) gives pretty good results. Next step after that is usually referred to as "DSP" (4-6k$), which basically means you can do engrave, cut, mark operations all in one click by using different colors. Then after that, the higher end devices which will obviously blow the low end devices away.

[Dave Sheldrake]

+1 to the guys above, volume production on glass just isn't the right job for a laser. Sandblasting produces far superior results.

cheers

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

If you don't want to put a week into cutting masks and sandblasting, the laser gives you a lot of flexibiity and will give very adequate results for gifts.

I don't know what that means, but to make a mask and sandblast something, we take the same artwork you'd use for lasers, print it on a film (2 minutes maybe), then take that negative, put the mask on it, expose it to UV light which takes 2 minutes, and then apply it to glass and blast it. On a recent job we did, I timed the sandblasting and it was taking me 10 seconds per glass to blast it. I'm not sure where the "if you don't want to put a week into cutting masks and sandblasting" comment is coming from.

It's very fast.

[Matthew Grant]

That IS fast!