Suggestions how to make this 23" krenov plane more usable/comfortable to hold?

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Edit: the image is not showing for me except in the edit mode, so I'm linking to it at the bottom - might see both.
23inchKrenov-s.jpg
I made this two foot* fore plane to flatten the tip of the bench I'm making. I've got very large hands but it is still to hard to use, I think mostly because my hands fatigue from squeezing it since it is too wide. I'd like to avoid a complete Frankenstein look since I'm attached to it (the tool itself, not the specific shape). It was the first real tool I've made and first thing made out of rough lumber, not s4s BORG maple.
... so I'm asking your suggestions for how to reshape it, add tote & knob, etc.

As you can see I chopped out a mockup out of a scrap of construction lumber so I can try a shape before committing but I'm not sure what to try, having never used any other planes larger than a no5.


On a good note, it works great. Pushing it isn't that hard, just keeping a grip on it. It does a great job of flattening the 3 x 13 x 66 inch Douglas for "scraps" I got from someone making a log cabin. I thought I'd screwed up somehow but twig again after taking a year off due to injury... Turns out the DF just wasn't near dry enough. Now it works!
Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks

*well, almost...

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

I should mention: the blade is 1 3/4 inch wide, but the plane is 2 3/4 inch wide. I made it a while ago and stopped noticing how much wall I have on each side until just now, when I went to measure the whole width. It is red oak and 2 1/8 inch tall at the mouth. One thing that would make a big difference is just thinning the plane. How thin do you think I can make the sides while remaining strong? I think it would still need other changes, but that would help.

[Gary Kman]

I'm looking at a cabinetmaker's notebook by Krenov. Small planes are shaped like yours. Large ones have what looks like the back of a horse's saddle sticking up behind the iron and the body is narrowed at this point and again at the fore. Imagine yours was made of clay and you held it in a normal position and squeezed and pushed forward. He also makes some checking where you grip.

Using a different approach, Stanley iron planes didn't develop into the shape they are by accident or aesthetics.

[Jeff Heath]

Here's what I do to my fore/try/jointer planes to make them more user friendly.





I don't think you'll have much luck adding a tote to this style of plane. Build a "grip" into the plane, as pictured, or even checker the sides by your right hand behind the iron, as well as on the sides up front for your left hand (assuming you are planing right handed). Also, you can round over the front part of the plane in front of the iron to fit your hand better.

It's made of wood. Shape it to fit your hands, and make it more comfortable to use.

Otherwise, you can always make a more traditional style wooden plane with a tote and knob, all squared off and stuff........

[Matthew N. Masail]

you can go as thin as 1\4 inch on the wall thickness, done it many times.
I've made many krenov planes but I personally don't take to the krenov style planes in ergonomics, they are tricky.


I think that you could indeed add a tote, if you wanted to. take a look at the HNT A55 jointer http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcata55jointer.htm
however if you do the tote MUST be shaped well to make the plane comfortable.

another issue is that the plane is fairly light wight, so a low hand grip ala krenov
will make it feel more soild. I would try to make it comfortable before turning it into a plane with a tote.
there are also ways to add mass to this plane if you do choose to turn it into something more traditional, done that too and it works very well.

[george wilson]

Of course you can't get hold of a plane that has a completely slippery,streamlined shape.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Great, thank you both!
Gary, I've been meaning to order that through inter-library loan, now I will. I've seen so many smoothers and such modeled after his, but very few longer planes. Those I have have been shaped the way I did, at least at first glance. What you describe sounds just right. Also, what you said about Stanley planes is even more true about Krenov's own planes - I've read he focused on making them fit his hand, not looks at all, but doesn't seem to be that true about many that people make modeled after his. Like me, they seem to just copy what came before. I'm not at all wedded to a given shape - just didn't want to make it ugly (if there was an alternative - more important is that it works!)

Jeff, that is perfect - helps me picture what to try. A side benefit: it looks great.

Thank you!

[Brian Thornock]

I have a plane made by a fellow woodworker where he made a flat on the top of the back, glued on a nice contrasting piece of walnut, and shaped a grip sort of like on jeff's plane, but with more shape so that it is very easy and comfortable to hold.

[Jack Curtis]

Have you considered trying to carve/drill a "tote" out of the area behind the blade? A big hole? Then you could pull or push. Or maybe a big indent on each side?

[David Weaver]

How many people are using krenov planes to work lumber from rough, and by that I mean a significant amount of it?

If I had to use one, I would do what jeff has done so you could lighten up the grip pressure, but if I had to have a wood plane, there exists a multitude of inexpensive vintage double iron planes that would work circles around that type.

[Jack Curtis]

How many people are using krenov planes to work lumber from rough, and by that I mean a significant amount of it?

If I had to use one, I would do what jeff has done so you could lighten up the grip pressure, but if I had to have a wood plane, there exists a multitude of inexpensive vintage double iron planes that would work circles around that type.

Not a Krenov, but very long toted wood, such as ECE 24" or C&W/Old Street 30". The metal versions' weights are a lot of work.

[David Weaver]

The continental designs (like the ECE) are proven. I haven't used any of larry's planes, but I'm sure they are an example consistent with the fine english planes.

[Winton Applegate]

As far as better grip so you can relax your hands


I made this plane





and was going to sculpt it into a thing of beauty but only got as far as knocking the sharp corners off. I figured where ever it bit me I would take more off.
This plane is bigger than it looks. It is a BEAST (wide and heavy) and is the equivalent of a # 4-1/2. Takes the same blade and cap iron as my LN #7 jointer !
What I wound up doing almost immediately was the finger holds. Note the top part of the cut out has a sharpish edge to "HOOK' onto the tips of my fingers. THIS WORKS GREAT !
Some where I got the idea.
Maybe from this plane even though it has handles.



Also from the oval cut out areas on the LN block planes
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/block-pla...-block-planes/
which are ineffective due to not enough depth and no top edge to "hook" your fingers.


Lastly note that Krenov took a "riffler" file to the sides of his planes and made cross hatch rough grip areas. I like my hooks better.

[Winton Applegate]

These photos show the riffler cross hatch and also cut outs for better grip :











and take note of what he said about adding handles and his thoughts on crinkle shavings and the non micro setting of the chip breaker.
1/16 and 1/32 hardly in the thousandths. and he was Mister "I tune my planes as a musician tunes his violin".

Partly why I never considered needing to set the chip breaker to such close to the edge extremes.

[Kees Heiden]

Well, it is obvious that mr. Krenov didn't understand the chipbreaker. That's not critique from my part. Many people back then didn't understand the chipbreaker anymore. To learn to understand something about handplane you must go back much earlier in time, when the handplane was critical for the daily existance of the woodworker. They put "fancy" handles on their planes, and they knew how to use the chipbreaker.

Not wanting to learn about the correct way of using the chipbreaker, beacuse mr. Krenov told you so, is counterproductive in my view.