What stone am I missing?

[Bobby O'Neal]

I was given a set of Shapton Glass stones for my birthday a while back. Its a 500/2000/16000 set and I really, really like them. That said, working blade/chisel backs from the 2k to the 16k seems to be a stretch. My first thought was to go with the Shapton 8k, but I found myself wondering if there was a better option. I do not intend to make a progression in normal bevel sharpening that requires an 8k (or equivalent), but will do a secondary bevel with the 2k and a tertiary bevel with the 16k. In the meantime, I have about 10 chisels that need the backs prepared, and Im sure to encounter more work for it.

So, Shapton? Norton? Equivalent other brand? I'm not hung up on having another 100 dollar stone…it could be any effective brand.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Bobby

I would suggest a 5000 or 6000 between the 2000 and 16000. However I dislike my Shapton Pro 5000 (very slow) and have not used the 6000. The 6000 I have is a Sigma, and I like this a lot. No reason why you cannot use this instead of a Shapton - I would.

I am not sure why you have a 2000. The 1000 would have been better, but if the 2000 works for you ... I prefer the Shapton Pro 1000 over the Sigma 1200, just in case you decide to upgrade (down grade?) this area.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jay Park]

I agree an 8k would fit in your set. I'd stick w/ Shapton GS. You'll have the same grit progression (grit rating can vary per manufacturer & lines). Plus the SGS are good stones.
T
I've tried the SGS before and owned the Shapton Pro's. I've switched to the Sigma Power ceramics, they're slower cutting but better feedback. The feedback is important for me as I sharpened knives free hand way before I started woodworking.

Jay

[Bobby O'Neal]

Hi Bobby

I would suggest a 5000 or 6000 between the 2000 and 16000. However I dislike my Shapton Pro 5000 (very slow) and have not used the 6000. The 6000 I have is a Sigma, and I like this a lot. No reason why you cannot use this instead of a Shapton - I would.

I am not sure why you have a 2000. The 1000 would have been better, but if the 2000 works for you ... I prefer the Shapton Pro 1000 over the Sigma 1200, just in case you decide to upgrade (down grade?) this area.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well the set was a preselected gift. I didn't choose the grits but I am grateful and will use them and learn. My assumption was that I would move on to the Shapton 8k for uniformity but for the purpose of a stone that will have much less use, I wondered if there was an option that was less expensive without a massive sacrifice in quality. I would be ok with a small sacrifice in quality if it did the job, maybe a little slower or with less response. Ideally, I'd like to find something that my local Woodcraft has, just because I'd like to support them. Great people, and they are the only game in town if I need something faster than an online order.

Thanks for your input.

[David Weaver]

You want a 4 or 5 micron stone. I like the shapton pro 5k but its only a 3 micron stone. There aren't a lot of great mid stones. The chosera 3k is a 4 micron stone and is pretty good.

[David Weaver]

Never mind the last post, that's a good interim step from a 12 or14 micron stone. A 3 micron stone would make a good step from the 2000 grit Glasstone, which is only 7.35 micron.

A pro 5k or Glasstone equivalent would be good. I'm not aware of any cheap good 3 micron stones.

Fujibato used to sell a super nice 6k stone that's magnesia binder (like a chosera) on ebay for $38 shipped. But it looks like he sells it pickup only now - and I doubt any of us are going to kyoto to get it. He's gone upmarket since those early days, I guess.

http://www.330mate.com/product/863

You might check with stu to see what he has in the 3 micron range. I'd bet the sigma power 6k stone is something around there.

I'd also make the side suggestion that if you get the backs of your tools flat on the 2k stone, do a partial job with the 16k (like 5 minutes or so, focusing pressure on the edge) and see how sharp the tool is and just put it in use. You can work the back a little extra (like 30 seconds instead of a few swipes) on the 16k each time you sharpen the tool and it'll eventually be polished. You will be surprised how sharp your tools are despite the lack of a perfect looking back. There is a very large gap between a back that is not properly flat (and thus you can't get the wire edge removed properly) and one that's got 2k scratches partially or mostly removed. The desire in having a dead perfect polished back with no visible imperfections is cosmetic, and the small gaps between the stones that are labeled 4k to 16k probably caters to the knife people who like to marvel at the perfect polish on the edges of their knives. I'm pretty sure that's why the choseras are all of the sudden only a 4 micron stone at a 3k grit rating, and the same with shaptons using 3k at a 5000 grit rating (which the chosera 5k also does).

I've heard other people talk about being non-plussed with the 5k stones that are 3 micron, because they are generally expecting something halfway between a 1k stone and a 15k stone, but the stone makers had something different in mind when they made them. They are essentially finish stones and with a bare leather strop you find that after you remove the wire edge stragglers, those supposed intermediate stones can get tools really sharp.

[Bobby O'Neal]

Thank you, David. Helpful as always

[Brian Holcombe]

David, do you often polish your blades out to 12k +?

i have a 1k stone and a 6k stone that I use for most of my tools, I put an edge on or flatten with the 1k and polish the edge with a 6k stone. I have a few more aggressive stones, but they aren't needed often.

i maintain my edges with the 6k stones and eventually they are, as you say, nearly mirror polished and damned sharp. However, my question is; are you seeing an improvement going to the next level of fineness?

[David Weaver]

I used to. But in a situation like Bobby is in, I'd do a partial polish job and wait for repeated use of the tool to do the rest, and only revise if I felt like an iron wasn't sharp enough.

I don't do any of that now. I've (publicly) fascinated myself with using a single stone and seeing how good I could get using it.

My personal thoughts on using the 12k+ type stones on regular sharpening regimens is that you can completely forgo a strop for practical purposes. If you do that, it takes no more time to use them than it does a strop and they make sense. Those 1 micron stones give you a thought free routine where everything you ever put to the stones comes away blindingly sharp - as long as you manage to keep the amount of metal worked down.

My routine before the current fascination was a 1k shapton pro and a 15k shapton pro. It worked extremely well and was very fast. If I felt like I had too much metal to work to do it, then I refreshed the grind (which takes less than a minute on a decent grinder).

I don't think those stones are necessary, but they make a good regimen and I used the same regimen on everything - smoothers, chisels, jack planes, whatever.

Short answer, though, you're really not going to see a great deal of difference in day to day work if you're sharpening fast with a 1k and 6k, there's no reason to add an extra step (time or cost-wise).

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you, I appreciate the insight.

[Winton Applegate]

I agree with 5000 or 6000 between the stones you have.
Personally I go from 1000 Shapton Pro to a 2000 Shapton Pro but I have a sharpening stone use addiction that others will tell you IS quite out of hand and not to be emulated by the sane
or
anyone wanting to get cabinet making done in a timely manner.
I just do wood working so I have more dull blades so I can have stuff to
~S H A R P E N~

But that's just me.
I don't have a 6000 but think it would be a great stone for some one who isn't going to buy every grit on the planet. I go coarse stones then 5000, 8000, 16,000.

For most woodworking your coarse stones then 4000 then 6000 and quit there would probably be just fine .

[Bobby O'Neal]

Good stuff Winton. I'm leaning towards getting the 6k Shapton GS. That said, last night, while working on a chisel back that was way out of whack, I experienced some of what David was talking about. After quite a bit of work (maybe 25-30 minutes) on a 300 grit diamond plate, the back began to have a polish that was much greater than normal use of that 300 would render, to the point that when I used the 1000 side, it dulled the progress I had made, in terms of polish. Very interesting.