The One Stone Challenge

[David Weaver]

Spent the better part of the weekend using the hard ark pictured earlier, but it doesn't seem like it's got the washita potential. I guess that's not a surprise, but it does work *very well* if it's followed by the jasper. Just not without that assistance. Maybe another week or two.

[Darren Brewster]

I got really good results with water stones with a convex bevel. Very sharp, very fast. I don't have a very coarse starting stone so I found my bevel angle would creep up on me. I liked it a lot though. I started hollow-grinding afterwards to give it an honest try and like that too, plus it is nice to have a grinder in the shop. I don't collect stones like David, but I sure have tried all sorts of different methods, that is for sure.

[Kees Heiden]

Maybe it was allready thouroughly treated somewhere in this thread, but how about Belgium coticule as a one hone stone? They are quite readilly available overhere, but very expensive.

[David Weaver]

They would work. Coticules work best with light pressure, though, because the particles are big. The ones that are not purely razor stones (some of the real fine softer ones would make crappy tool stones) and that had a strong slurry would work, though.

For some reason, I always have trouble getting much out of coticules with tools, compared what one will do with a razor. I guess I don't have the patience.

Their price has become totally irrational given their performance, though. There are lots of people buying stones based on the reputation of the best older coticules and not getting what they think they're getting.

There are, however, sometimes that you can get a rough one used for cheap at a flea market, but not many of the vintage stones were very big.

[bill tindall]

Extra fine fixed diamond plate would meet the challenge for any practical woodworking task. And, it is what May May uses for carving. And for turning you can just skip the stone altogether, just grind and strop.

[David Weaver]

Bill, extra fine being the plate that eze lap markets as 1200 grit (but that seems much finer once broken in?)

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks for the info about the coticule. I'll patiently wait for a cheaper vintage one. 140 euro for a new coticule is a bit steep indeed.

[David Weaver]

BTDT - no longer have the stone (a large lagrise combo that was about 140 euro). I still do have some coticules, I just don't think any of the new ones look comparable to the *good* vintage ones (there are definitely coarse vintage coticules, too). Ardennes sells some selected coticules directly, but IIRC they are a lot more expensive than the average regular or select grade that are sold by retailers. They are also selling stones with visual flaws now as being rare types, which you can decide about on your own. I think they are a reputable operation and they are just selling at what the market will pay, but as the buyer, that usually indicates you're paying more for something the folks a hundred years ago didn't see as being valuable.

A 140 euro coticule would leave you feeling not that great about your purchase within 5 minutes. Very pretty stone, but not good for woodwork compared to a lot of other less expensive stones.

[Sean Hughto]

So, David, I blame you. You sparked my curiosity to pursue some fun with vintage Arkansas stones. Ebay prices are a bit nuts for the bigger and nicer ones, but I popped for the $14 for this smaller one. It looked grimy and hollowed in the pics, so I don't think anyone was too attracted. Not to mention that I guess it's not that old with its plastic case and all. Delivered quick, came today, and I cleaned it up on the diamond plate. Sharpened up a couple old chisels like a champ. She may be small, but she's a sweetheart. I love her colors too - talk about looking like a northern pike!

So thanks, I guess, you no good stoner .. err, pusher. ;-)

Now to find some harder ones to play with a lily, hard, or surgical black maybe?

[David Weaver]

Sean, there is a guy who goes by the name "night train" selling hard arks on ebay right now for prices that don't occur often. Half of norton prices, more or less.

How is the case stone? I've always been wary of other branded stones - did it create a good edge?

The cheap treat is the other cherts (jasper, etc, that are really hard and REALLY cheap). I've not seen jaspers actually sold as sharpening stones, but they are useful as a polisher for a skilled sharpener.

[Sean Hughto]

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out the train.

The case stone seems great so far. I sharpened a couple smaller (1/4 and 1/2) vintage chisels in a minute or so. The stone cuts nice and fast. Just a handful of strokes to a burr.

I assumed it was maybe mined by pike or norton or whatever and sold to case to market under its name for sale with case knives and stuff?

[Darren Brewster]

Extra fine fixed diamond plate would meet the challenge for any practical woodworking task. And, it is what May May uses for carving. And for turning you can just skip the stone altogether, just grind and strop.

I've gone from a DMT Extra Fine to a piece of MDF with green crayon on it and gotten good results, but with a honing guide, not freehand. Though my DMT has crapped out on me. I can barely get it to scratch a chisel except for a couple tiny areas. I think it was a lemon from the start, but didn't know enough when I got it to return it too Lee Valley. I would be interested in trying the eze lap, as David Barnett on Woodcentral speaks so highly of them.

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out the train.

The case stone seems great so far. I sharpened a couple smaller (1/4 and 1/2) vintage chisels in a minute or so. The stone cuts nice and fast. Just a handful of strokes to a burr.

I assumed it was maybe mined by pike or norton or whatever and sold to case to market under its name for sale with case knives and stuff?

I'm not sure what it is. The surface of the stone (the pores) looks a bit different than a pike washita, but the case with oilstones is always proof by use. If it's good in use, the story is pretty much fully written at that point.

[James Taglienti]

I tried to follow the grinder with a coarser coticule the other day, it worked, semi quickly , but the amount of slurry I kicked up was very wasteful. I bet it was almost $1 worth! The stone wouldn't last a year at that rate.


I bought a gigantic "surgical black" from night train, like 3x8x2 or something, still breaking it in but it's nice, not translucent density but pretty close, a lot of stone for the money, I'd suggest one to anybody, don't be afraid of the multicolored ones either!

[Sean Hughto]

When I first started woodworking. I tried some common oil stones and just had no luck at all. I think they were too hard and too quickly glazed. My technique was probably lacking too, but the bottom line was that I couldn't understand how anyone used them successfully. I suppose it was in essence like trying to dimension rough lumber with a finely set smoother - it might be doable, but it would take forever and be unpleasant. Raising a burr is the most important part of sharpening successfully - cleanly separating that wire edge and polishing is really all that's left after that. So happy sharpening, on woodworking tools at least (I know nothing about razors), it seems to me, comes from raising a burr as fast as possible and then choosing a nice hard stone or strop to polish it up. So I'm loving the softer oil stones lately, and am satisfied with my charged strop, but I'm curious what stones you favor when you are not doing a single stone challenge. Do you love the hard, black, translucent, just leather, or what?

Oh and what's with the nomenclatures of "No 1" and "Queer Creek" if you know?

Also, flipping the 1 stone challenge, if you were in a contest to be judged by electron microscopy that evaluated the number of steel atoms at the intersection of the edge planes when complete, what would your process be? Then, in the same contest but with a time limit of 2 minutes for sharpening a 3/8ths inch O1 chisel - or 2 minutes to sharpen a 2" O1 plane blade?