The One Stone Challenge

[David Weaver]

T10 is similar to 1095, or more or less a good plain modern version of carbon steel. India should sharpen anything that any other aluminum oxide stones do, but anything should sharpen t10 if it's not too hard.

I suppose the stroke wars will make people want something that's got more alloying in it so they can go longer between sharpenings, but I think at this point, I'd rather have t10 if it's done right.

NBSS is a well respected school around here that teaches serious woodworkers, and not just people looking to learn to cut dovetails or play woodwork but avoid doing anything difficult.

Nice work fellows, by the way. Most of us are pikers - gentlemen woodworkers who do little, but try to do what we do well. There are a few exceptions, like George Wilson, and a few others in other sections of this forum that are absolutely world class.

[David Weaver]

interesting challenge. I don't understand some of the elaborate processes some go through for sharpening. I uses one hard oil stone. Hollow grind on the grinder, then free hand on the stone. Pull the burr on the strop. Sharp, done and move on.

I guess that's what I'm getting toward, and using that one stone, if you need to get a little extra out of it, experience with it will allow. It's not something maybe that a beginner who pulls a guide backwards on 5 separate stones would do, but your experience with it allows.

I never had an elaborate sharpening setup, but did use two ceramic stones a lot - one medium stone and one very fine stone (the very fine stone more or less replaces the strop, but of course abrades metal readily so it's not identical - it just keeps the process short). I still think that's a very good process, it's quick.

If I can get a few folks to experiment with this (so called, but not really) challenge, especially the folks who mention having 4-6 step routines that take 4 or 5 minutes to complete, and see that the surface quality of their planed wood is still quite good, that's not a bad thing.

It's not really for a move of economy, I passed that idea LONG ago when I started wasting money on stones. I still waste money on stones.

[george wilson]

I say,David. You do swing!! You have gone from being an invererate stone hog to using one? I predict that in the future,you might end up sharpening a piece of iron ore on a rock from your driveway,and stropping on a piece of bacon.

Me,I'll stay with my black and white ceramics,and a diamond stone.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Funny David, that without the challenge some of us have settled into this method! To restate what I have posted already, I start with a concave grind, go to the Washita and mostly to a charged strop. Sometimes I'll take a few licks on a hard Arkansas before the strop, but that is usually without rhyme or reason (maybe I'm a bit lazy and don't want to get back into the work at hand?).

As I've already said, I mostly use O1, though by accident there may be some A2 in the mix, but quite frankly I would be hard pressed to remember what tools are A2! I've settled into this method maybe 3 or 4 years ago when I got my prized Washita (not the first one though). Easy-peasy!

I kind of wish George would weigh in here with some historical perspectives or Warren Mickley, though
I don't think he hangs around SMC much.

I see George posted while I was writing this one! Like David I have many stones, but they are mainly vintage and bought cheap! For anyone looking for vintage, first look at the stone's case, if elaborate, that's usually an indication it was prized by the owner and probably costly.

[Dave Beauchesne]

David: good post - lots of info.

George: The iron rod comment; When I was in Japan visiting our DIL's family, grandma would take her knives to a stone in the neighbours retaining wall two doors down, and sharpen them. Had done so since 1960.
I didn't get a chance to go look ( whirlwind trip ) but it HAD to be that stone! I have kicked myself since for not getting her to show me.
Personally, a 1000 and 8000 Shapton get it done for me, but you never know.

[Graham Haydon]

Thanks David,

I have now looked up NBSS, It'd be nice to think they were just using some fine India. Nothing wrong with Gentleman woodworking in whatever way you want to do it. I find just doing what I want feels so good when most of my time is spent satisfying clients. Thanks for the info on the steel to, I must confess a lot of my edges are chrome van and to be quite honest I don't find them too bad really.

[Derek Cohen]

... I predict that in the future,you might end up sharpening a piece of iron ore on a rock from your driveway,and stropping on a piece of bacon..

Don't give David more ideas, George! You know how easily influenced he is.

I think that David is secretly attempting to corner the market on sharpening stones. This one-stone thread is just his way of convincing others not to purchase more!

Regards from Perth

Derek (staying with Shapton Pro 1000, and Sigmas 6000 and 13000).

[george wilson]

NOT iron ROD,iron ORE!!

But what of the poor stone venders should this method become universal? Moans and sobs would emanate from their portals."Oh,Woe is me ! I am undone!! Oh,unhappy carbide scribing knife,find your home in my heaving breast!! Oh! Argh! Thou woundest me not deep enough! And,thou broke off,leaving me sorely distressed!! Such is thy unreliance!! Come then,faithful awl. Do thy worst! AAGH!! I die!!"

Say it isn't so,David,I liked the old,prolifigate David better. How else will we continue to plumb the mysteries of a myriad of Japanese,European,and American stones? You have created a great following,a mob of stone lovers. Do not abandon them,but continue to regale them with tales and the lore of the Shapton,the Thuringan,the Arkansas,and all those mysterious and wonderful stones that are in this Earth!!

[Steve Friedman]

I think that David is secretly attempting to corner the market on sharpening stones. This one-stone thread is just his way of convincing others not to purchase more!

Derek (staying with Shapton Pro 1000, and Sigmas 6000 and 13000).

That explains it!

David's much brighter than we give him credit for.

Derek, as an aside, I started using my Shapton Pro 1000 instead of the Sigma 1200 and like it much better. A bit more aggressive as a starting stone.

Steve (who still refuses to relegate my Sigma 6000 or 13000 to spectator status)

[David Weaver]

I think that David is secretly attempting to corner the market on sharpening stones.

I've done a poor job of convincing people not to buy the stones that I like the best, though!!

Maybe I should make a "Washitas are bad, jack of all trades, master of none" thread!

[Matthew N. Masail]

I just opened this thread up since my last response... I am afraid I might be to blame as I have recently encouraged David and thanks him for rediscovering
the one stone method, as he has led me to a path of enlightenment, yes enlightenment, and freedom from a pile of "pesky" stones... it is me you want, do not harm
the leader as he still has promise of great lessons to bare, and is one that tells only truth!


Sean asked "Matthew, did you let the 3,000 clog so you could burnish with it. Maybe i do not understand the concept of burnishing. Could you explain that? I think of it as more rubbing than abrading."


I don't think about letting any stone clog on purpose at the moment because that would mean having to think about that. the 3000 new cerax is rather hard compared to the rest of them so it doesn't cut as aggressively. the way I understand burnishing is that the abrasive particles fracture and become duller and smaller, yet are still hold in place by the strong bond in the stone. this makes them cut more shallow and finer. with some stones (like the sigma 1.2k) this happens normally without the need for clogging, but some clogging naturally follows.


it depends of much metal you need to remove if you can go straight to a 3k stone or not. David hollow grinds real close so it's always fine. I use the Paul sellers method at the moment so never grind, sometimes a coarser stone is better to get a burr quickly. the edge from a sigma power 1.2k and a strop seems as good an anything so far, but I'm still looking into it, I started last week and only have limited shop hours.

[David Weaver]

In an effort to find something more affordable, I'm going to switch to this for a while (stone on the left), it's a "hard" arkansas from natural whetstone. I haven't checked its density, but it's not similar to what norton calls "hard", it's more like a good vintage soft and it has a lot of bite. it'll be a few days before this one is cutting finely, but once it does, i'll leave it there. Lilywhite on the right for size comparison (I think that lilywhite is 7x2). NW must have a lot of these stones, because they aren't afraid to cut them big and for cheap. I bought this one in combination with a soft of the same size, and the guy gave me a deal of $29 each. I think the going rate for the hard by itself is somewhere around $40 for 8x3. I only mention price, because he's cheap, and this stone is probably better than the vintage (non washita) soft stones I've seen, because it's a little finer, comes flat and freshly cut and it's as big as you want. He doesn't seem to have an 8x2 size, which I'd generally prefer, though.

IMG_20140308_102415_465.jpg

Anyway, the last I was using it, I had conditioned it heavily with a diamond plate, so it's cutting coarsely, almost as much as it was when it was new, so I'm going to cheat and use the jasper to chase the burr until it settles in. Bits of jasper are nice to have, they're cheap, and they double as a strop when you chase the burr (there's no reason to strop following them).

They are a bit hard to find in big pieces, though, all of the slabs are small and thin because people make craft show jewelry out of it. This is my most expensive piece - $10, but it's large. I've gotten pieces of biggs on ebay for as little as a dollar. They are the hardest stones I've found.

IMG_20140308_104607_409.jpg

[Jonas Baker]

Well David, I think your interest in sharpening is great, and to me this thread could be looked at as a way of simplifying the sharpening process (which is good goal) and also about finding which stones work best for ones purposes (which can be a fun goal if you are a sharpening nerd). I will say this, I still find oil stones to be far less messy than water stones, and if I could, I would give up water stones all together! I just splash an oilstone with Norton oil which is thin enough to work well but not so thin that it runs everywhere, while with a water stone I get water and slurry everywhere!! So my eternal goal is to sharpen without using water stones. That being said, nothing cuts as fast as a good synthetic japanese water stone (aside from a grinder). They just eat steel.

I think you could definitely use a Fine India as a one stone purpose (and I believe that's what they recommend at North Bennett Street School), but I do find that the new Fine India stones leave quite a burr that needs refining, but once broken in, they become finer (and slower cutting of course). Medium Indias are too rough to use as a one stone solution IMO, as they are very coarse.

I find Washita stones to cut as quick as a fine or medium india, but they leave a finer edge. The caveat to this is they are all a bit different (as any natural stone is). I have two Washita stones, one Pike 6X2 Lily White Washita, which I find doesn't leave such a fine edge and leaves too much of a burr. The other one is a later (70's era?) Norton that is just marked Washita Oilstone and Norton in blue ink on the side of the stone, it looks to be the same as a Lily White Washita stone. That stone leaves a finer edge than my Pike Lily White Washita, and a fine enough burr that just stropping on leather can make the steel sharp enough to work well in wood.

So my question for you David, which type of Washita Stones do you prefer. You mention the pike stones to be your favorite, and then you mention the turkey stone (which is just a Washita stone with a mottled turkey skin type of appearance?). Anything to look out for when trying to find a Washita stone? Or is it just a crap shoot? Your favorite stone, is it a pike Lily White Washita? Or something else? Also, can you elaborate on what qualities you prefer in the stone? More coarse, more fine? Do you find that they leave a tiny wire edge, or is there a technique you use to getting a smaller wire edge on a coarser Washita stone? Sorry for all the questions.

Best,

Jonas Baker

[David Weaver]

I like the pike labeled washitas (lilywhites and no 1s) the best, but probably because I've used them more. They're more coarse than my unlabeled stones, but they will settle in to fine cutting if you let them go - and still just be able to retain a wire edge.

I hone with them lifting off the primary about 5 degrees until I've gotten a wire edge that seems suitable for the condition of the edge prior to sharpening, then I lap the back for about 10-15 seconds. Then alternate back and forth five times, one light stroke each front and back - that removes most of the wire edge and allows me to not have to strop the stone hard (stropping a stone hard on a leather strop is a sure way to find any grit or dirt that's in the strop, and each heavy pass nicks the edge with tiny nicks - i hate that).

I used the woodworker's delight washita for a while, it was also nice, and I could probably get along with any of them. Preference for the lilywhite may be based just on what it cost. I sold chris griggs a no 1 washita a while ago that was a good one, I should've kept it, too. It was mottled a little on the surface but had a very similar feel to the lilywhite, both of them slightly different than the woodworker's delight - a little more bite. The ww delight is a very good stone, though, too. And at least it can be had sometimes for a decent price, despite turning up seldom in good shape. I'd call 50 bucks a good price, though I got mine for about a third of that last year because the entire subscribership to ebay was asleep.

If any of them seem to be cutting too slow (like the ww delight can settle in very fine), then there are two things I do to wake them up - either hone something that's got wrought iron laminated - that seems to pull some grit loose and freshen the surface, or rub two washitas together just a little bit. That freshens them up a little without making them too coarse.

I use WD 40 on them exclusively, but never out of aerosol (because most of the aerosol ends up elsewhere). I use one of the white plastic wd40 bottles instead.

I don't look for anything particular when I'm trying to find a hidden washita - I have what I want now, so the rest of the stuff, if I find one inexpensively, I'll just buy it. If it's very fine like the scarred up stone I showed earlier here, that's OK.

[Tom M King]

David: good post - lots of info.

George: The iron rod comment; When I was in Japan visiting our DIL's family, grandma would take her knives to a stone in the neighbours retaining wall two doors down, and sharpen them. Had done so since 1960.
I didn't get a chance to go look ( whirlwind trip ) but it HAD to be that stone! I have kicked myself since for not getting her to show me.
Personally, a 1000 and 8000 Shapton get it done for me, but you never know.

Stradivarius sharpened his tools on a stone around the town well. Last week, I was working up on a roof with a chisel, didn't want to come down unless I had to, and sharpened a beater chisel enough to use it on a brick on the side of the house.