Shaper and Feeder Wiring

[Michael W. Clark]

Hi everyone, not sure if this should go in this forum or the workshops forum. Please move it if I posted to the wrong forum.

This is my first shaper and feeder, so bear with me. I have a 5HP 1ph shaper and 1HP 3ph feeder and have some questions about wiring them. Do you wire the feeder so that if the E-stop on the shaper is hit, the feeder is turned off too? The feeder doesn't really brake, it would free wheel, but I could see it wrecking something if the cutter stops turning.

I have a 20A 220V 1ph outlet near the shaper. I also have a 30A 220V 3ph supply that I can easily get to for the feeder (SPC). I can also get the 30A 220V single phase service before the converter. My shop is relatively small, so neither of these is very difficult to get to.

The biggest thing I plan to do (at the momemt) is raised panels, so I think the 20A service would be adequate for the shaper only and the 30A should be fine for the shaper and feeder both? I could run a larger service for both, but not sure it is neccessay with what I intend to do?

If I go with the SPC service for the feeder, do I need to fuse/breaker protect the feeder? If I don't do the SPC, I could get a small VFD and feed both with the 30A 220V 1ph supply. Any problems with this?

Any comments, suggestions, preferences, are welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Erik Loza]

Michael, what shaper is this? Is there a socket for a feeder on it?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Michael W. Clark]

Hi Erik,
It's a Delta HD, good question about the socket. I don't think it has one but didn't know that some had that. I'll look later tonight and get the FLA of the feeder and shaper. The feeder is Holz-er.

[Erik Loza]

I would just run the feeder as stand-alone if your shaper doesn't have a socket for it (some of the Euro-machines do...). It's not like the wiring would be in the way of your workflow.

Best,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[J.R. Rutter]

Considering the phase difference, I will add my vote for just running the feeder separately. That's how I have always done it.

[Michael W. Clark]

Seperate is what I was thinking, but saw where some had wired them together.
The easiest would be to use the existing 20A receptical for the shaper and the SPC for the feeder.

[Peter Quinn]

I've never seen a feeder triggered to stop when the momentary is cut on a shaper. I've seen a few feeders powered from a J-box on the shaper chassis, but I think that was more a matter of convenience than intention, the power was all in the same phase, and still the magnetic starter cut power to the shaper separately from the feeder, usually feeder power was pulled from a drum switch wired for neutral or forward/reverse in front of the starter. So no shaper power, no feeder power, but hitting the red button does not stop the feeder. As a professional shaper user, I'd advise don't over think this one. Could a feeder potentially damage a knife by advancing stock after the shaper is shut? Maybe, but its long odds and has never happened to me. Oh, I've killed the power before in a panic stop, but the feeder just sort of rolls the cutter to a neutral position then pushes the stock through or on a split fence set up gets stuck on the out feed fence. And in a panic I usually kill the feeder pretty quick behind the shaper. The delta HD doesn't have a braking motor to lock the spindle that I'm aware of, so no danger there. I'd power each separately the best way you can, probably want to give the 5HP shaper 30A 220.

[Mike Heidrick]

You did not ask but I would run a vfd for the feeder that was powered off the same 30 amp that also powered the shaper. One plug powers shaper and vfd. Simple enough to wire the feeder Off/estop to whatever shape eStops and disconnects you want. Also you would have infinite feeder speed control. An ip65 nema4 vfd would give you power direction and potentiometer hz control on the outside of the VFD for the feeder. Look for one on eBay. The feeder should be 1hp or less so the vfd will be reasonable.

[Scott T Smith]

Michael, your 5hp shaper will require a 30A service; 20A is insufficient.

All of my feeders are wired separately from the equipment. Typically if there is a stoppage the feeder rollers simply slip on the wood.

[Michael W. Clark]

Thanks for all the input. I am pretty sure there is no socket for a feeder on this one. I'll wire it separate, my only concern was that it may be preferred for some reason based on some other posts I had read.

The motor is rated 21 FLA, so yes the 30A circuit would be preferred. See any problems running both the shaper and feeder off the same 30A circuit (my SPC is on that circuit too for the feeder)?
Probably use my existing SPC for now till I clean everything up and get the shaper and feeder going. I thought about the VFD and may be a more permanent solution. Would this VFD work?

http://www.factorymation.com/Product...50-201-OC.html

Mike

[Mike Delyster]

Thanks for all the input. I am pretty sure there is no socket for a feeder on this one. I'll wire it separate, my only concern was that it may be preferred for some reason based on some other posts I had read.

The motor is rated 21 FLA, so yes the 30A circuit would be preferred. See any problems running both the shaper and feeder off the same 30A circuit (my SPC is on that circuit too for the feeder)?
Probably use my existing SPC for now till I clean everything up and get the shaper and feeder going. I thought about the VFD and may be a more permanent solution. Would this VFD work?

http://www.factorymation.com/Product...50-201-OC.html

Mike

Yes it would.

[Michael W. Clark]

I got the shaper cleaned up and running. I had to replace the reversing switch and modify the box cover to install the new type of switch. I just have the shaper plugged into a 220V, 20A circuit. The motor nameplate FLA is as stated above. The manual for the shaper said a 20A circuit should be used. The only thing I can think of is that the motor does not have overload protection and a 30A circuit would allow it to over amp before the breaker caught it? I could see a down side to the breaker tripping during a cut, and the feeder keeps shoving wood at the cutter.

I also got the feeder installed and tried it out connected to my SPC. The feeder ran fine but the motor got hot, more than I would think a TEFC motor would get. The fan was working but the fins were almost too hot to hold my hand on. Could this be related to the SPC? I was not shaping only trying out the feeder to see that everything worked. This one has a drum switch with two forward and two reverse speeds, off positions in between. There is another mechanical lever on the feeder for two more speeds, giving 4 speeds in each direction. The mechanical lever can only be moved when the feeder is running. Is this typical of the lever and number of speeds? I assume slowest is best to start with for a newby.

There is some chord damage on the feeder, so I need to replace that, but I don't think it would be related to the motor running hot.

Thanks,
Mike

[Michael W. Clark]

Yes it would.

Bringing this back up. Job and kids make projects take a while to turn around.

The feeder is only 1hp, any issue putting a 2hp VFD on it? It may be more versatile in the future than the 1hp unit.

[David Kumm]

You can put the larger vfd on it but I'm not sure it is worth the effort. Looks to me that you have an 8 speed feeder. If you change out the two gears inside the housing you get four different speeds. I have a bunch of feeders and find that one or two favorite speeds do 90% of the work. I generally have the gears arranged so the slower speeds are what are set. As a hobby guy I'd rather have a few cuts more per inch than optimise the production and slower feels more safe. You get some variable speed with a vfd but not that much as you need to run at 30-60 hz and the speeds and lever will get you close to whatever speed you need without it. My preference is to have the feeder wired separately but my one machine with the feeder plug won't start the feeder unless the head is spinning. Dumb idea that needs changing. Dave

[Michael W. Clark]

Sorry Dave, I should have clarified. The drive is only for phase conversion. I think a 2hp drive would be more likely to be adaptable to something else in the future and it is minimal price difference.
Mike