Hiring People - Solving the Mystery?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hiya Brett,

Sadly all too common here as well

cheers

Dave

[Rich Engelhardt]

In my opinion this is a load of malarkey. No one in this situation is going to just sit around and get a check if they don't work. It just doesn't hold water.

Next time you're up North my way, we can get together with my wife's family & you can see first hand how wrong you are .

[Mark Bolton]

Next time you're up North my way, we can get together with my wife's family & you can see first hand how wrong you are .

Rich,
I have the exact situation in my own family. One in fact who has never worked a day, and others that have been on some form of "the dole" off and on their entire lives. I also operate in an area where being on some form of government assistance whether it be disability, medical card, food card, whatever, is very common.

My point is that these young people showing up to work and being flubs are that way thanks to their parents. They have yet to be corrupted by the system. They've been corrupted by coddling and never having to be responsible for anything or be held accountable for anything. Ive been watching progressing for 20 years now. They are not going to flub out of having a job with me and just stroll into some government office and be handed 25k+ per year in compensation. It's not that easy.

Further, a child raised in the manner most of us were is simply not going to see government assistance as an acceptable option just like we didn't. Their parents would have instilled a work ethic just as it is for us.

It starts at home. You can have your scapegoats all you want, but it starts in the mirror.

[Rod Sheridan]

I doubt that it's a lot different in the US than in Canada.

I think there are several issues, so I'll start with employers.

- many employers no longer have any loyalty to, or interest in their employees. As soon as work is slow, the employee is gone.

- this atitude seems to generate one of lack of loyalty to the employer, on the employee's part. SO the employer invests money in the employee and the employee takes off as soon as they feel like it.

- in the past, apprenticeships were a 2 way street. An employer agreed in contract form to take the employee from zero to fully qualified in a period of time, for an agreed to pay progression, in return for certain conditions that the employee had to follow. It was very interesting seeing what my FIL had to agree to in England to become an apprentice. He had specific tasks that had to be completed on schedule, and his employer had to complete specific tasks, such as paying him to go to school for certain periods of time, and train him such that he could become a cabinetmaker.

There were always poorly motivated workers, just as there are poor employers who deserve every disaster in the making that walks through their door.

I think the difference now is that many young people lack the social skills to function effectively, as Mike mentioned however, there are many young people with superb skills heading for university that far outstrip our skills at that age.

Perhaps you need to have a formal plan in writing, explaining what you will do for the employee, as well as laying out what the employee is required to do. You may well have to teach them that they need to show up for work on time, and have to reward them for it somehow. (I know it sounds stupid, however a $20 gift certificate at the end of the month may be suitable)

I do feel for your issues, I'm of the age where I'm heading into early retirement in a few years, and I work in a high tech field. Everyone we hire has a post secondary degree, yet I go through the same things you're going through with the new employees. It takes us a while to teach them the social skills they lack, they have great technical knowledge, just no work place knowledge.

We've had to extend our probationary period from 3 to 6 months because we need longer to train and evaluate them, I kid you not, we have to teach college graduates to send an e-mail to purchasing to buy more pencils when we're down to one box left in the cupboard, otherwise they'll use the last one, and I guess expect their mother to take care of it.

Regards, Rod.

[Jim Koepke]

One of my best employers preferred to hire people with no experience. I was one of the few who actually had a little experience in the field from taking a class in college. My college training was of little use in the "real world."

Another employer would only hire people who already had a job. He preferred a resume indicating a person had a good job, was laid off and as soon as possible found work in any field available while looking for a better job. His challenge was to keep his work place that "better job" for as long as possible.

The work place need rules to keep workers out of trouble. At work the time is 100% the employers. In reality there will be a small percentage of diverted time, but the main attention needs to be on the job.

Any new hire should get evaluated after the first day, first week, first month and so on. If possible after a short period step up their wage. Even half a dollar an hour feels good if it is granted after the first few weeks.

Have a long probationary period. The unemployment check collectors do not get a free ride when an employer says they are willing to hire. The check collectors are usually calling around for people that are not hiring. Anyone at any time that calls asking about your hiring situation should be told to come in and bring a resume. You may not need them today, but who knows what tomorrow brings. The check collectors will not come in and will not put you on their list of places they looked for work. If they do and the unemployment office calls, they could lose their checks.

I got one job when during the interview the manager was showing me around the shop. He asked me what I would do when times got slow. I looked around and mentioned the floor could use some sweeping and the trash could be taken out. He looked at that as taking initiative.

Be very careful about hiring friends or family of employees. Sometimes it can work out, more times it can be a disaster.

One of my bosses was impressed by my ability to turn what he termed "idiot work" into an enjoyable challenge. It was work that had to be done and my challenge was to get it done as fast and accurately as possible.

Maybe hand a prospective employee an example of a mistake and see what they say about it. One employer was always happy that I would check his math and layouts and sometimes find a way to use less stock cut a different way to do the job.

Expect to hire a totally incompetent employee and you will not be disappointed. However when they do well, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I am sure there are books on finding the winners and avoiding the losers.

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

Rod kinda hit the nail on the head as far as employee and employer loyalty. As an employee why would I be loyal to my employer if my employer will lay me off the next time the quarterly report shows a slight dip in sales? Why can't the employer accept lower or no profit for a quarter or two until business comes back instead of laying off employees?

Many employers laid people off during the recession. Some employers that are loyal to their employees didn't lay off employees and instead cut pay and hours until business improved. Your employees will be much more loyal if they don't get laid off at the drop of a hat.

My employer for many years had a no layoff policy. Unfortunately, our industry has seen dramatic drops in revenue and large scale layoffs have been necessary. We have many 30+ year employees, but most are no longere as loyal as they were in the good days of the company.

[Chuck Wintle]

Brian,

With more and more companies being run by people with fancy degrees such as an MBA the environment for the employee has changed. These college educated treat employees as a number only and wil lay them off at a drop of the hat.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod kinda hit the nail on the head as far as employee and employer loyalty. As an employee why would I be loyal to my employer if my employer will lay me off the next time the quarterly report shows a slight dip in sales? Why can't the employer accept lower or no profit for a quarter or two until business comes back instead of laying off employees?

Many employers laid people off during the recession. Some employers that are loyal to their employees didn't lay off employees and instead cut pay and hours until business improved. Your employees will be much more loyal if they don't get laid off at the drop of a hat.

My employer for many years had a no layoff policy. Unfortunately, our industry has seen dramatic drops in revenue and large scale layoffs have been necessary. We have many 30+ year employees, but most are no longere as loyal as they were in the good days of the company.

Brian, have you read the book Spark?

It's the story of Lincoln Elecric and their no layoff policy starting in the 1930"s........Excellent reading

[Scott Shepherd]

Brian,

With more and more companies being run by people with fancy degrees such as an MBA the environment for the employee has changed. These college educated treat employees as a number only and wil lay them off at a drop of the hat.

Oh, we had to go there, did we? Pushed my button....

I worked in a manufacturing environment and had worked my way up to senior management, running the manufacturing engineering department. We had a layoff and it lasted for a month or so, maybe a little more. Then they called them all back. They worked for a couple of months and we got called back in and were told they were going to layoff the machinists and assembly workers again. Not because we didn't have the work, but because 1 month looked a little slow. All the months after that were booked solid. I recall telling them it was one of the dumbest things they could ever do. All the "book smart" people disagreed with me strongly. I said "Here's what's going to happen, you're going to lay them off. The people that are good and going to have another job by the end of the week, so they are gone for good. The people who can't find another job are going to tough it out and come back. So all your good people will leave, all the people who aren't that good, or even people you wish wouldn't come back, will now be your primary work force. Your name in the area will be trashed to skilled labor. You'll be known as the people that lay people off every time things get slow. So that'll keep out any highly qualified people. What you'll end up with is a shop full of people who no one else will hire or people too lazy to go look for a job. You're going to wreck your skilled workforce and do permanent harm to your ability to ever get another skilled person to step foot on the shop floor".

They all thought I was crazy. Luckily, before the scheduled axe date, some sales guy got wind of it all and talked a customer into pulling some orders forward, which stopped it all.

It's amazing how many "book smart" people think that skilled labor is meaningless. They have no lives, no families, no bills, no dreams, no nothing.

[Lee Schierer]

Oh, we had to go there, did we? Pushed my button....

I worked in a manufacturing environment and had worked my way up to senior management, running the manufacturing engineering department. We had a layoff and it lasted for a month or so, maybe a little more. Then they called them all back. They worked for a couple of months and we got called back in and were told they were going to layoff the machinists and assembly workers again. Not because we didn't have the work, but because 1 month looked a little slow. All the months after that were booked solid. I recall telling them it was one of the dumbest things they could ever do. All the "book smart" people disagreed with me strongly. I said "Here's what's going to happen, you're going to lay them off. The people that are good and going to have another job by the end of the week, so they are gone for good. The people who can't find another job are going to tough it out and come back. So all your good people will leave, all the people who aren't that good, or even people you wish wouldn't come back, will now be your primary work force. Your name in the area will be trashed to skilled labor. You'll be known as the people that lay people off every time things get slow. So that'll keep out any highly qualified people. What you'll end up with is a shop full of people who no one else will hire or people too lazy to go look for a job. You're going to wreck your skilled workforce and do permanent harm to your ability to ever get another skilled person to step foot on the shop floor".

They all thought I was crazy. Luckily, before the scheduled axe date, some sales guy got wind of it all and talked a customer into pulling some orders forward, which stopped it all.

It's amazing how many "book smart" people think that skilled labor is meaningless. They have no lives, no families, no bills, no dreams, no nothing.

It's not always the people with MBA's, it usually starts with the accountants who report all the money going to payroll with no "revenue" to cover it. What they want is to aly off the entire work force each minute that the wages aren't offset by the revenue. I even told one once that we could lay everyone off and he would have lots of profit, but only for one day.

[Dave Sheldrake]

The day I forget the people who work for me are the one's who pay me I'll pack the whole lot up. The most valuable assets my company has....no... OUR company has, is it's staff.

Without me they would be working somewhere else, without them I'd be working FOR somebody else.

cheers

Dave

[Chuck Wintle]

Brian, have you read the book Spark?

It's the story of Lincoln Electric and their no layoff policy starting in the 1930"s........Excellent reading

Companies that actually care about their employees are few and far between, IMHO, but apparently they do exist. With global competition and foreign goods coming into the country very cheaply this puts the well paid american worker at a distinct disadvantage. But I am sure everyone know this. American companies relocating to china and elsewhere to have the cheap labor and lax corporate laws can then flood the home market with cheaply made goods but still at a high cost to the consumer. The employer may feel less and less loyalty to the employees when faced with cheaper goods on the market place. So what to do with a thousand people who are not competitive for a given industry? the choices are difficult and the worker gets caught in the squeeze.

[Brian Ashton]

it's hard to find people that want a career, not a job.

Interesting statement... Why would someone want to make a career out of being under paid - unless they're dumb and have nothing in life to strive for. Unless you live at your parent and or plan to stay single and live in shared housing for the rest of your life it's nearly impossible to live reasonably on 18/hr. I'm not saying your too cheap, it's obvious your line of business can't pay more so you're going to have to get used to a revolving door of employees or go it alone.

Also you say no one is applying for jobs at your firm... Maybe you need to look at what or how you're presenting the job in the ad or other methods you use to get he word out -- it maybe a real turn off to anyone with enough intelligence to walk up right.

Also what's the industry. Maybe you're line of work is a real turn off period.

[Alan Bienlein]

The day I forget the people who work for me are the one's who pay me I'll pack the whole lot up. The most valuable assets my company has....no... OUR company has, is it's staff.

Without me they would be working somewhere else, without them I'd be working FOR somebody else.

cheers

Dave

You said a mouthful there!

A lot of employers seem to have forgotten that lately. I'll also say that no one really "wants" to work but they need to work to maintain the life style they desire.

I worked two jobs at the age of 13 and still went to school. I liked the money. Got married at the age of 18 with a child on the way so my reasons changed. I even went to work on my sons first birthday thinking it would help me get ahead in the company. I've worked many holidays when asked and did what ever was required and more to get the job done.

Did any of that matter to the employers? No because I ended up leaving them so I could advance myself. I finally realized I had enough Jan. 8th 2010 when my best employer at the time to work for laid me off but kept some pretty lousy employees instead. I guess working six and seven days a week from before sun up to after sun down and driving 200 miles round trip to the job every day wasn't enough for them. For six months straight I never really saw my family.

I no longer have loyalty to any one other than myself and my family now! That last employer was the straw that broke the camels back. I'll come in do whats needed to get the job done but I won't ever let poor planing from the employer ever become an emergency on my part again. I'll look him in the eye and tell him he should have looked ahead.

As far as being able to live on $18 an hour if you can't do that then something is wrong with you and you need to live within your means. I remember making half of that and I still put a roof over my families head, food on the table, clothes on their backs and still took vacations and did other things.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Hire people who are already working. Lure them away from their current jobs.