The Woodwright Shop quality

[Tom M King]

Fast and Cheap have been two main priorities in building anything for as long as anything has been built. Those of us who are paid to work on old stuff with regards to neither are indeed very lucky.

[Simon MacGowen]

So recently I have been watching some episodes of The Woodwright Shop on PBS since I started becoming more interested in hand tools. I have noticed that on a lot of the furniture that he makes the quality seems to miss the mark a little bit (gaps in miters, blow out, etc.) I'm not saying for a minute that I can do a better job with hand tools, but I didn't just start making furniture. It seems at least to me that he kind of just throws it together quickly. Maybe it is just to highlight the technique rather than the furniture. Has anybody else noticed this? Maybe I am just being overly critical.

I don't think you are overly critical; you are stating your observation which I totally agree with. I seldom watch Roy's show because I want something more inspiring or instilling confidence and I must say that some of his shows aren't. In one of the episodes, he cut his finger and you could see him carrying on with blood there. He should either put a bandage or edit out that part; we all cut ourselves, no big deal. But leaving that in the show was distracting to say the least...and quite non-professional for a national show like that.

If a show is 27 minutes long, then present something that is suitable within that amount of time and don't use it and other factors as excuses to put out a poorly cut joint and what not. If needed, cover the technique or project in two episodes. We don't see anybody else -- Norm, Tommy Mac, etc, -- who produce poorly executed projects and they don't have a day as compared to Roy, either. On the hand tool side, we have Paul Sellers, etc. who don't show us any crappy cuts just because time is limited -- why! Editing is a tool anyone can use.

I am not saying Roy needs to change and he has no reasons to. But as viewers, we are free to choose what to watch and need not come up with excuses for him.

If I wanted to learn a technique, I wanted someone to show me how to do it and convinced me with the results. If Roy's intention is to first entertain and second teach a skill or technique, it is fine and he certainly meets his objectives. I still prefer the opposite.

Of course, if his were just one of those Youtube home-made woodworking shows, my assessment would be different.

Simon

[Federico Mena Quintero]

I've found Roy's program to be both inspirational and informative.

When I didn't know anything, I watched the program to get inspiration; one could see just how many things could be built if only one learned the skills and got the tools.

When I was in the first stages of learning, Roy's program was still an inspiration, but it wasn't immediately useful. I found other, more specific tutorials, to be good for learning very basic skills (sawing straight, sharpening tools, flattening and squaring a board).

But now that I know something, and have tools, Roy's program is very useful to me. Now that I know what his tools are, and what they do, I can visualize how to make do with the tools I have, or to know when I should really get a tool I'm lacking for a particular operation. I end up paying a lot of attention to how he holds the work in the limited ways in which he can do it during the show, or at the immediate problem-solving that takes place. As a time-constrained woodworker, I can relate to his own kind of pressure.

As others, I enjoy it tremendously when he brings other craftspeople to the show.

Roy's show is about breadth, not depth in a particular sub-area in woodworking, and I like it that way

[Phil Thien]

Boy I'm surprised at the # of people that think he isn't capable of fine work. There have been a number of times where he has referred to a completed model (made when the cameras weren't rolling) and the quality was top notch. I'd be quite surprised if he isn't capable of very fine work and still able to produce it in record time. Just not twenty-five minutes.

[Tony Wilkins]

I think a better example of what he's capable of is the stuff he makes/is featured in magazine articles. He's always wanted to make the show approachable. It's never been edited. He shows it how it is - as in occasionally you cut yourself and bleed a little.

[David Weaver]

Boy I'm surprised at the # of people that think he isn't capable of fine work. There have been a number of times where he has referred to a completed model (made when the cameras weren't rolling) and the quality was top notch. I'd be quite surprised if he isn't capable of very fine work and still able to produce it in record time. Just not twenty-five minutes.

I guess it depends on what you consider fine work. I just haven't ever seen anything he's done that reminds me of someone like George or Mack Headley's fine work.

[Simon MacGowen]

I do think Roy has possessed the skills needed to do good joints etc. Some people enjoy reality shows; I don't. For woodworking shows, given the limited footage, I prefer them edited. If mistakes are made, show them and show how they are fixed. Cutting a finger to me has zero learning point there, other than a distraction. Of course, fans of his show would love everything they see there. That should be respected, but it doesn't invalidate the different views of other people who expect something better. My woodworking club runs show and tell projects and we have different expectations about them depending on who produce them, in terms of their woodworking experience. Roy is no beginner and it's natural that some of us want to see the projects he puts on the show of higher quality.

Once I was shown a segment of Rob Cosman's online workshop, I couldn't stand seeing him spend 15 to 20 minutes on something that one would get the idea in 2 or 3 minutes. Ok let's take 5 minutes but not 3 or 4 times that amount and I think his episode is one hour long only. I don't know if he is still using that "reality" format or not as that was the only time I watched his. He, no one will argue, is a very skilled woodworker and his online videos can be improved, too.

Simon

[Mel Fulks]

Roy's show, correct me if I'm wrong , has a grant for specific purposes. To improve the show YOU need to improve the past. If you watch a documentary about elephants do you wonder why they are allowed to have ivory?

[Mansell Bettez]

I guess it depends on what you consider fine work. I just haven't ever seen anything he's done that reminds me of someone like George or Mack Headley's fine work.

I think you fail to understand what Roy's work actually is.

[David Weaver]

I think you fail to understand what Roy's work actually is.

I don't really fail to understand anything. I understand exactly what his work is presented as on the show, and if he has a library of fine work, then it is kept from us because it isn't part of his show, etc. I have seen some of his average work in magazines, and it's something I could do. I can't do fine work. I recognize that he is immensely popular and can do good work, but fine work is another thing entirely. I'd rather learn from people who can do fine work, as I don't have a lot of space in the house for folding bookstands or stackable pine cabinets.

I don't believe either, that:
* I should adopt anyone else's opinion as my own
* anyone else should adopt my opinion as theirs (e.g., if you like the kind of stuff roy makes and you'd like to make it, that's fine. I'm certainly not going to steer someone to rob cosman's case work video where he spends gobs of time trying to plane down the insides of a case.)

[Jack Curtis]

I don't really fail to understand anything....

Oh, please. However I kind of agree with you vis a vis Roy. I watch his show usually just to see what I see as his dissertation on tools and tool usage, especially useful for odd plane types and Barnes machines. It was also really cool to watch Elia Bizzarri bend chair arms on his forms and Mary May carving. The end results of Roy's work is often slapdash. It's just a matter of different goals. And I derive pleasure from watching him.

I also used to watch Norm, mainly because it was the only woodworking show on for a couple or three years. Very entertaining working out as he went along how I'd have to modify the process for hand tool work.

So I think there's value in watching most any of these shows.

[David Weaver]

Oh, please. However I kind of agree with you vis a vis Roy. I watch his show usually just to see what I see as his dissertation on tools and tool usage, especially useful for odd plane types and Barnes machines. It was also really cool to watch Elia Bizzarri bend chair arms on his forms and Mary May carving. The end results of Roy's work is often slapdash. It's just a matter of different goals. And I derive pleasure from watching him.

I also used to watch Norm, mainly because it was the only woodworking show on for a couple or three years. Very entertaining working out as he went along how I'd have to modify the process for hand tool work.

So I think there's value in watching most any of these shows.

That statement is in regard to the whole roy thing, not as a general multiversal statement (just in case universal isn't enough for some folks).

I like watching norm's stuff from time to time, as long as it's not something that's been in magazines and at every woodworking store as a newbie trap (adirondack chairs, etc). Norm is tidy and fast. He isn't working traditionally, but when you see him work, you think "I'd hire a guy who works like that".

Actually, two guys who are contractors in my neighborhood work like that - everything is tight and they are very tidy. They cost a little more, but not much more and they still work on their own with just a single relative helping them.

[Jack Curtis]

That statement is in regard to the whole roy thing, not as a general multiversal statement (just in case universal isn't enough for some folks)....

Understood.

[Chris Griggs]

I don't really fail to understand anything.

That statement is in regard to the whole roy thing, not as a general multiversal statement.

Oh Great! You just flushed my whole belief system down the toilet!

[David Weaver]

Well, you can always move to a different layer/bubble and see if you find it better there There might be one without meat and leather