Dovetails, why not a hacksaw?

[Gary Kman]

Been practicing with a nice new back saw cutting dovetail. I'm sure that with enough practice I would become more accurate. Of course the stiffener on the back edge prevents me from sighting down the blade and cut line.

A bow saw the size of a car door for dovetails somehow doesn't appeal to me but has a couple things going for it. It holds the blade in tension which stiffens a thin blade. Also the blade can be set twisted a few degrees from the plane of the frame so one can sight down the blade.

It looks like a quality hacksaw could be produced with the violin peg blade holders of a bow saw to achieve the twist. And of course blades with suitable pitch, depth and set would also be needed?

Any thoughts about the practicality of a tensioned frame saw as described for cutting dovetails?

(I almost stopped with "any thoughts?"

[Derek Cohen]

In 1995 Cecil E Pierce wrote a book, "The Precision Cutting of Dovetails". Actually, he wrote it some years before but could not find enough information for the book, and it was too skinny to publish. He had to wait a few more years, and even then he padded it with pictures of planes he built.

Anyway, his big method was the use of a hacksaw. Two chisels (ground at 18 degrees) and a hacksaw for his dovetails.

Of course, he was a total nutter, as you are. Everyone knows you need an expensive, custom backsaw to cut dovetails.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

It will work. I think most standard hacksaw blades would cut very slowly in hard woods compared to a standard western or Japanese dt saw. Btw, have you tried a dozuki? And I can't follow how "sighting down the blade" is necessary or an advantage in cutting DTs.

[John McClanahan]

One thing that would probably help is a hacksaw that doesn't have the rotating blade mounts. Those things never seem to hold the blade true to the handle.

John

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've done it. Slow going even with the coarsest teeth blades I had. The smallest and lightest weight hacksaw you could find would be a boon. For similar cost, I'd rather just grab a cheap pullsaw from the hardware store if I was looking for an alternative to try.

Wasn't there someone out there at one point demoing cutting dovetails with a hacksaw and a sharpened screwdriver to show that the key here is practice and skill and not necessarily the tools?

There's nothing wrong with it, and you certainly don't need fancy kit for such small cuts, I just would probably pick something other than a hacksaw myself.

[Kees Heiden]

If almost everyone succeeds in making dovetails with a dovetailsaw, and you don't, then the solution isn't trying to use another type of saw.

I don't sight down the blade either. I just look from the side and see where the edge is leading to.

[Gary Kman]

Btw, have you tried a dozuki? .

Yes. I don't like the sawdust covering my line and the saw I tried doesn't have enough set to steer the blade. Does yours?

[bob blakeborough]

Yes. I don't like the sawdust covering my line and the saw I tried doesn't have enough set to steer the blade. Does yours?

You really shouldn't have any need to steer the blade when cutting a DT. once the kerf is started, it will guide the saw on its own. You would have to be out a mile to need a correction that requires steering the blade as DT cut are usually only 3/8ths to 1" long...

If you find starting on the correct angle is a bit troublesome, maybe try angling your board so you are cutting straight down. You might find a straight cut simpler to start without having to sight down the spine than an angled cut...

Just a thought...

[george wilson]

A hacksaw is totally unsuitable for wood cutting. I see no reason that anyone would want to use one,unless it was the only saw they had. It will clog right up and as said,cutting will be slow going. Perhaps a cold chisel could accompany it in an auto repair shop,where the mechanic decided to take up woodworking on his lunch time.

[Brian Holcombe]

I don't see why a hacksaw would be favorable to a small bow saw.

I use a backsaw, I don't sight down the blade because I use the reflection in the saw to see if I'm plumb.

[Sean Hughto]

Yes. I can cut dovetails with my Japanese saws and western saws. That's not a brag, anyone who gets the hang of sawing can. Dust will get on lines with any saw, its just a matter of the line in the end or the line on the face. If you breathe while you saw, you can blow away any dust as part of the process, but before long its more feel than lines anyway.

[Brian Holcombe]

My lines get covered in dust with 'merican saws just the same as japanese.

I prefer western tools, but japanese joinery, so I'm strange.

[Jim Koepke]

Of course the stiffener on the back edge prevents me from sighting down the blade and cut line.

The solution is to move your eye a bit to the side and learn to correct for the angle.

In my own trials and tribulations a line is marked all around a piece being cut. After the piece is cut it is inspected and evaluated for any corrections needed. My goal is to have the knifed edge remain and only the slightest amount of fuzz on the surface beyond the knifed area. With care and consideration my goal is becoming reality.

Some saws are made to be steered. Those are fret saws, coping saws and turning saws. Saws for cutting dovetails and tenons are not to be steered. If the saw pulls to one side or the other, there is something wrong with the sharpening or the set.

BTW, a hacksaw does work (poorly) for cutting wood. I had to use one at work a couple of times to cut wood because there wasn't any proper saws to use.

jtk

[Winton Applegate]

bow saw the size of a car door

Ha, HA, HA,

Of course, he was a total nutter, as you are.

Ha, ha, ha,

Gary,
you realize that was a psychological professional's opinion.
tough brake buddy.
Who knows . . . maybe with proper therapy and MUCH medication . . .

Derek, play youtube.

First off to the literal question : For me too fine of teeth; 14t is the coarsest hack saw blade I have. Second the frame is thick and still in the way and is way too heavy and the steel structure is just over kill. Blades not sharp enough . . .

I do understand what you are after HAVING THE BLADE AND THE CUT IN THE SAME PLANE. by eye.

. .. all I can say is to t'be a wood worker you have to be a little bit twisted. Boopie shoopie I think Joni Mitchell called it. Sorry to have to resort to insider technical jargon . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRmZdTZsD78

As to the frame saw, it seems to me, that to achieve what you want (to have the frame out of the line of sight you have to keep rotating the blade in the frame and the frame is over to one side throwing off your balance etc.

For me this LN round haannnlll is the ultimate dovetail saw.
super thin spine, very light, the round handle makes it agile to change angles.

and . . . wait for it . . . .
. . . . .
they stopped making it. Tell me we are not in the dark ages and regressing. Go ahead, some body . . .

The photos:
I got all into taking photos so you get too many (better than not enough) I DID leave some out. Honest.
LN saw spine is the thickness of two American pennies.








Japanese rip saw of pretty darn good quality has a back about the same thickness. I din't put a vernier on it but is about the same for all practical purposes.





Note the LN has a longer effective blade.

Note the Japanese saw has a longer "effective ?" handle so at least you get your monies worth right ?





The little saw I threw in to start a fight.

It is a flush cut saw and cuts on the pull stroke. Basic/not expensive. would give a flat plane line of site to cut dovetails.
Blade is light but not thin and tensioned on the pull stroke so does not need a back. Would need some fettling to make it "accurate" for cutting dovetails. I have not tried it for that purpose.
Go ahead and try one though and let us know how it goes. Might be a whole new revolution in dovetail sawing.
I don't know.
I like a longer saw and course teeth for few strokes.

[Winton Applegate]

Perhaps a cold chisel could accompany it in an auto repair shop,where the mechanic decided to take up woodworking on his lunch time.

aaahhh

George,
I don't think I have been a good influence on you.