LN tongue and groove plane vs plow plane.

[paul cottingham]

Bear with me here, as I am sure the initial answer is plow plane. But I am not sure it is the right one.....

If you were to buy a plane for making grooves and the like, how would a tongue and groove plane fare? I realize that it is not adjustable, but how often do you make grooves that are wider than 1/4" or are inset from an edge all that far? I ask because I find the handle on the Lee Valley plow to be a misery inducing torture device, whereas the handle on LN's tongue and grove plane is much more comfortable. I admit that I prefer it's simplicity as well.
I can use the LV plow in a pulling motion, but that is less than optimal, although it works fine that way for me, I can see it becoming awkward after a few grooves, and I think the chances of screwing up the wall of a groove would increase with the number of grooves you make.
I realize this may very well be a very personal preference, and the sheer utility and adjustability of the LV plow makes it a very desirable choice, but the handle really does mess with my poor, damaged hand.

Thoughts on this admittedly bizarre question?

thanks,

[Jim Koepke]

The first part of my answer is thoughts on the tongue & groove plane. If much more tongue and groove work was in my future I would strongly consider acquiring one. It would not be my choice for a dedicated plow plane.

The most important part of your post to me was this:

but the handle really does mess with my poor, damaged hand.

My hand also suffers from being damaged. Seeking comfort in the grip of my tools is a primary factor in buying and using a particular tool. That is only one reason for my repeated suggestion to people enquiring about purchasing tools is to hold it in person if possible. If a tools doesn't fit or feel right in the hands it isn't going to be "the old friend" helping on a project.

There are a various planes available for use as a plow plane. For one plane dedicated to nothing but 1/4" grooves I have a Stanley #50. A great little plane. A Stanley #45 is like an SUV where the #50 is more of a sports car.

When it comes to cutting rabbets or beads or even wider grooves the #45 is my go to worker.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Paul

As a plough plane, you are going to get a lot more mileage out of the Veritas Small Plow than the LN T&G plane. There are other options for grooving drawers, and there are other plough planes. Still, you may run into the same problems with the handle of other planes. In use the Veritas is an excellent plane - taut, balanced and versatile.

Lie-Nielsen

Veritas

Both planes allow the handle to be removed. There is nothing to stop you modifying the Veritas handle (we are woodworker's, not so?). Indeed, it should be possible to add a Bailey/LN-type handle should you prefer one.

Can you say what it is about the Veritas handle that you find painful?

Do you grip the handle in a fist or push with the heel of your hand?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Stanley 49 for tongue and groove of that size. I wouldn't spend several hundred dollars on a plane just to do T&G, and the 49 works so well there is no real need for any "improvement". If anything, there's a small learning curve for honing the irons because they're narrow.

I don't know what the going rate is for a 49, mine was $50 about 5 years ago. Whatever improvement the LN would have, it's not going to be a material thing (vs., for example, the 51/52 combination where the stanley plane had durability issues).

(just looked on ebay, not many 49s have sold, but the two that did went for $50 and $80)

[Chris Griggs]

Isn't the LN plow supposed to be released soon? I would wait and see if that handle suits you better before spending money on a t&g plane. Or make one of these:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tep&highlight=

[Don Dorn]

My plough is a Record 044 that I've had for some time and it works very well. However, I do a fair amount of T&G for back panels and have the LN 49. It hurt to spend that kind of money when a Stanley would be much cheaper, but I have no regrets at all. For that function, it's a wonderful tool, easy to sharpen as it's a single blade assembly and it's overall tolerances are typical LN quality.

[paul cottingham]

Derek, I have really bad neuropathic pain in my right hand from nerve damage in my neck. The veritas handle hurts my hand due to pressure in a specific part of my hand, in point of fact, it makes my hand cycle between severe pain and numbness often for a day or two.
Honestly, I wouldn't really know how to modify the handle to alleviate this. I have considered making one similar to a LN plane, but have mentioned in other posts that I am (at best!) only a moderately skilled woodworker.
I have tried the Stanley's, but have the same problem with the handles.
To be clear, I have borrowed a LN tongue and groove plane from a good buddy, and it is much easier on my hand, which was what put this idea in my head in the first place.
I admit, I am a big baby, but I know I will not use a tool if it really hurts my dominant hand, especially if that pain lasts a long time after I have put the tool down.
I have been watching eBay for a no. 49, but they are uncommon, and I am a little scared of the handle.

[Jack Curtis]

Derek, I have really bad neuropathic pain in my right hand from nerve damage in my neck. The veritas handle hurts my hand due to pressure in a specific part of my hand, in point of fact, it makes my hand cycle between severe pain and numbness often for a day or two.
Honestly, I wouldn't really know how to modify the handle to alleviate this. I have considered making one similar to a LN plane, but have mentioned in other posts that I am (at best!) only a moderately skilled woodworker.
I have tried the Stanley's, but have the same problem with the handles.
To be clear, I have borrowed a LN tongue and groove plane from a good buddy, and it is much easier on my hand, which was what put this idea in my head in the first place.
I admit, I am a big baby, but I know I will not use a tool if it really hurts my dominant hand, especially if that pain lasts a long time after I have put the tool down.
I have been watching eBay for a no. 49, but they are uncommon, and I am a little scared of the handle.

Perhaps it's time to train your non-dominant side? I testify it can be done in fairly short order.

[paul cottingham]

I am planning on purchasing a left handed (non dominant hand) plow, if that is the plane I ultimately wind up buying. I already use my planes with either hand, to save wear and tear on my bad one. Thanks for the suggestion.
oh, and Derek, I believe I push with the heel of my hand. (A clue once I look at it!)

[David Weaver]

If you're working wood from rough, throwing a japanese plane into the mix is a great way to save wear and tear. A bit harder on the fingers, but less hard on the elbows and shoulders - works almost nothing similar and makes a great changeup.

And the bonus is that even the machine made $65 planes that have "expensive looking" irons are very good planes and the irons tend to have a very good balance of easy to sharpen vs. edge life because they are some kind of carbon steel and are not driven way up into the stratosphere on hardness (which is what you'd want if you were buying a fine quality smoother).