LV Small Shoulder Plane/plow plane conversion

[Don Rogers]

Let me be the first to admit my lack of knowledge concerning planes that make slots or rabbits in wood. I’m very much interested in tools, and want to learn about those things. I would like to make the planes describes by David Weaver in his “ http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...s-step-by-step” tutorial but have not gotten there yet.


I recently purchased a small shoulder plane (LV) and have ordered the LV small plow plane with the additional set of 4 imperial blades. The plow will give choices of 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8” slots and the shoulder plane cuts 1/2” wide. I have yet to use the shoulder plane and, of course, do not have the plow pane yet. I also have a Stanley # 78 Duplex filletster and rabbet plane1-1/2” wide.


Is it better to purchase the plow wide blade conversion kit with a 1/2" blade or fit the shoulder plane with a depth stop and RA fence (reasonably easily made - don’t know if commercially available) to become a 1/2” plow plane? This is a rhetorical question as I do not have any immediate plans for doing so.



Also, is there a book or article available concerning the uses of theses planes ? That is without Googling and going thru lots of related but limited items.


Don

[Chris Griggs]

There is no readily available way to add a fence and depth stop to a shoulder plane and really if there were, it wouldn't make for a good plow. If you want to plow 1/2 grooves get the conversion kit or make one of the planes from Daves thread. Making one of those planes will be far easier and more effective than trying to make your shoulder plane do something it wasn't designed for.

[Don Rogers]

Thanks Chris - that's good advice.

Seems as soon as I think I have a decent question, the answer comes to me as soon as I press the post button. You are correct - for about $60.00 I could purchase the conversion kit and 1/2" blade and save myself the hassle of trying to modify something that was not meant to be.

Don

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Honestly, because you can take such a big "bite" with a narrow plow iron, I often find it much faster to use a narrow iron and two passes - I've got a 1/2" iron for my plow, but it's often quicker to take a narrow iron, rip through two narrow strips with as a deep a pass as I can take and then break out any remainder between the two plows with a pair of pliers and a quick clean with a chisel bevel down if the bottom isn't as smooth as I'd like.

[Don Rogers]

Joshua,

Never thought of doing it that way but it sounds good to me. Knowing very little about plow planes and never having seen or used one, I wouldn't have guessed.

Great idea and you probably saved me from buying the conversion kit and 1/2" blade. At least for now - maybe later the conversion kit will be purchased for making tongues.

Ordered the plow Friday morning but have not been notified about shipping yet. Can hardly wait.

Don

[paul cottingham]

Honestly, when I had that plow I only used it with the 1/4" blade. When I buy another one, I will only buy a 1/4" blade. I can't imagine how hard it would be to push with a 1/2" blade. And I'm a big, heavy guy.

[Jim Koepke]

I push 3/4" blades all the time with a Stanley 45, no problem. Can take a pretty thick cut if I want to go fast.

This is two bench stretchers being plowed to hold a bottom 'shelf' so there can be a storage area under the seat:

100_5256.jpg

This is a stopped plowing made easier by the dados for the leg half lap (is that what that would be?) joinery.

jtk

[Don Rogers]

Paul,

That's good to know.

I did order the set of flat blades from 1/8 to 3/8" and it's too late to back out now. My reasoning was that I did not know what it was going to be used for but I defiantly will not order the 1/2" blade and conversion kit at this time. I like Joshua's method of using a smaller blade to make a slot and then moving it over to widen it to what is needed. Seems like you could make any size slot (within reason) using that method.

Don

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[Don Rogers]

Jim,

Do you attribute that to characteristics of the Stanley 45 or do you feel the small LV plow would do the same ?

I do know that my Stanley #78 will do 1-1/4" wide rabits (not sure of this spelling) but I never tried it on a long board and have no idea how tiring that might be. I really do not expect to be doing large work but being retired, I can somehow find the time and work slowly if necessary.

Don

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

You certainly *can* push those wide blades in a plow - it's not really hard, honestly, as Jim shows. I was just throwing out there that you don't need them to do the work. It's also really helpful if you're plowing to be able to put something like plywood in the grooves, where the width may not be exactly on any of your blades, and you don't want to custom grind a blade, and don't really feel like rabbeting the plywood to fit. (Which is what I do with solid wood to be fitted in grooves)

A big part of my laziness of course, is that I usually already have a smaller blade set up in my plow, and that's honestly probably a bit part of why my method is faster for me sometimes. But with something like a 3/16 blade, I can rip up "shavings" that are more like long chips, I'm guessing a 1/16 or so.

I honestly don't use the wide blades in my plow that much, because once I get that wide, I'm probably either make a dado or rabbeting and not plowing, and I have a fillester plane for rabbets, and cross-grain work is obviously not the strong suit of a plow plane.

The speed with which you can rip out a huge shaving with a narrow plough iron can also help if you ever have to make a big rabbet in a large piece of wood - rather than spending forever turning a 3/4"x3/4" strip of wood into shavings, you can rip through with the plow from both sides, and you get a free little strip of wood at the end, too!

[Don Rogers]

Give me several hours to respond on this thread. Both my eyes have been dialated and injected about ab hour ago and I'm not seeing well yet. After lunch i will take my wife to her doctor and after that I have a dentist appt. See you later this afternoon.

Don

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

Do you attribute that to characteristics of the Stanley 45 or do you feel the small LV plow would do the same ?

I do know that my Stanley #78 will do 1-1/4" wide rabits (not sure of this spelling) but I never tried it on a long board and have no idea how tiring that might be. I really do not expect to be doing large work but being retired, I can somehow find the time and work slowly if necessary.

Don

The Stanley 45 is a fairly rugged plane. I also have the smaller Stanley 50 that surely could do the work.

A wider or a thicker cut will put added stress on the other components of a plane besides the blade.

It also takes more force. Depending on how thick of a shaving one is making.

It looks like the LV has a 3/4" blade available, so at least the makers feel it can handle the job.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

T

It looks like the LV has a 3/4" blade available, so at least the makers feel it can handle the job.

It can, I've done it with mine, although only a few times. It takes more effort and more attention to get a clean groove but its not difficult. You won't want to take quite as heavy a cut as one would with a narrow blade (it will clog in addition to being harder to push), but you can plow a 1/2-3/4 groove pretty darn quickly with out a lot of work.

[paul cottingham]

Yes, I forgot to mention that I have a serious problem with my hand, neuropathic pain, worsened by the terrible (for me) handle on an otherwise stellar tool. I stand by what I say though, I find the tool easiest (and least painful) to use with narrow blades, and observation I have had seconded by other woodworkers. I actually pull it now, (with great success) I might add.
As I have said many times before, I am only a marginal woodworker at best, so YMMV.

[Jim Matthews]

I use a Record version of the Stanley plow plane.

Rather than rely on the "nicker" spurs that never seem aligned with the blade,
I score a knife line where I want the groove.

That's trivial when going across the grain, but crucial when cutting with the grain.
It's all too easy for me to cut a groove that follows the grain path of least resistance.

I don't rely on the depth stops, either. Those seem to shift if I bear down too much.
My smallest square doubles as a depth gauge.

Remember, if you plow out deeper than the scored line at the shoulder,
it's all too easy to tear out more than you want.

That results in a groove that's too loose.

Score both sides, cut a few passes, repeat to desired depth.