Observations on Sharpening Iron

[ken hatch]

I just finished building a couple of drawers out of Poplar, miserable wood to work cross grain. While chopping the pins and tails I tried to reduce tear out the usual ways, acute bevels, sharper than sharp iron, thin cuts....you know the story. None of it works, there is still tear out of the end grain.

It happens every time I work a soft wood, I explore different methods of sharpening, jigs, Tormek, water stones, and so on and the bottom line ends up my normal process of free hand convex bevel on diamond stones and stropping with Herb's Yellowstone works better than any of the other methods. I keep hoping to find something that works better but no joy. YMMV.

BTW, it's the same story no matter the iron, O1, A2, PM 11, or Japanese white steel. A free hand convex bevel will give as smooth a surface from the get go as any flat bevel, hollow grind, micro bevel, jig or machine sharpened iron and will stay sharp with out fractured edges longer. I could be full of it but I'm beginning to believe some of that longer life is because the stropping causes a slight "dubbing" of the edge and the convex bevel gives more support of the cutting edge.

Fire away....It ain't a religion, I just try to make it work.

[Andrew Fleck]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I just saw the bulk of the waste out and pare to the line. I never have an issue with tear out in any wood.

[David Weaver]

there is poplar and there is poplar. The stuff that comes at home depot works like radiata pine and tears at the ends a little between the tails. I'm not sure I care much that it does, though, it never shows up on the outside of the joint. It's filthy cheap wood.

I'm sure that varies by HD, depending on who is selling them their lumber at various locations.

You can pare it with a super low angle chisel to eliminate most of the hidden tearing. The extra time it takes, to me, makes it a no thanks proposition.

I've seen accusations on here before that there is a geometric or sharpness solution to wood like that, but sometimes it's such poor quality that it's just a nuisance (but one that's hidden in the joint).

The other type of poplar that I come across is dense stuff that is almost at the low end of cherry. That's what the poplar at rockler is like here that stays in their racks (not something that comes in on a skid). It's a pleasure to work with.

[Jim Koepke]

Ken,

If you mentioned where you live I have forgotten.

I haven't worked popular in years. I have worked a lot of pine/fir and some alder. I chop may tails and can get tear out, but it is avoidable.

If you live in the Portland, OR area let me know and maybe sometime we can get together and see if we can figure this out.

jtk

[ken hatch]

there is poplar and there is poplar. The stuff that comes at home depot works like radiata pine and tears at the ends a little between the tails. I'm not sure I care much that it does, though, it never shows up on the outside of the joint. It's filthy cheap wood.

I'm sure that varies by HD, depending on who is selling them their lumber at various locations.

You can pare it with a super low angle chisel to eliminate most of the hidden tearing. The extra time it takes, to me, makes it a no thanks proposition.

I've seen accusations on here before that there is a geometric or sharpness solution to wood like that, but sometimes it's such poor quality that it's just a nuisance (but one that's hidden in the joint).

The other type of poplar that I come across is dense stuff that is almost at the low end of cherry. That's what the poplar at rockler is like here that stays in their racks (not something that comes in on a skid). It's a pleasure to work with.

Very true, I have some in my rack that works OK but some is like the worst wood you can find in HD. Whatever, it still makes nice secondary wood....so I keep it around.

[ken hatch]

Ken,

If you mentioned where you live I have forgotten.

I haven't worked popular in years. I have worked a lot of pine/fir and some alder. I chop may tails and can get tear out, but it is avoidable.

If you live in the Portland, OR area let me know and maybe sometime we can get together and see if we can figure this out.

jtk

Jim, your offer is a few years too late :-). I moved from McMinnville to Tucson several years ago. BTW, once I finally retire for real we may be back. Have the rains stopped?

The tear out is just irritating, what was interesting to me was reaction of different irons sharpened by different methods to the "soft" wood and the difference in the quality of cuts. I still have not finished the drawer, I got too interested in sharpening different irons different ways and comparing the results. It is not often you find such a perfect test wood.

[Kees Heiden]

Soft wood is a great way to test sharpness! Not just cutting endgrain, but also when planing facegrain something like flatsawn western red cedar. Trying to get that perfect all over, with absolutely no micro-tearout in the late wood sections, needs very sharp blades. I feel that it helps to religuously step up through the grits and remove really all scratches from the previous one. My normal procedure of grinding, 1000 grit stone, microbevel on the 8000, doesn't quite cut it. Putting one or two steps in between helps a lot.

[Jim Koepke]

Have the rains stopped?

It did for a couple of days this week. It is presently pouring outside.

My expectation is that in a few weeks the dry season will start and people will be missing the rain as usual.

jtk

[Terry Beadle]

Just a suggestion. Use a heavier hammer but only give it lite taps.
If you have a chisel with really good steel, then reduce the angle of the primary bevel to around 22 degrees and apply a micro bevel of 35 degrees.
You should not need a full hand full of chisel handle to keep it straight at 90. If you get a chance to watch David Charlesworth do his thing on his video
"Precision Techniques for Precision Joinery", you will see what I'm suggesting.

But all that as side, wood is not so predictable as to say 100% no tear out what ever the technique or chisel steel.....hence YMMV ... hoot!