Living "Off the Grid"

[Ken Fitzgerald]

All those who "live off the grid" aren't necessarily mentally ill, lazy or some small group of strange introverts.

There are a several ranches in Idaho that are only accessible by hiking, horseback, airplane or boats. They provide lodging and guide services to those who want a wilderness photography trip, fishing or hunting. They have water supplies, flush toilets, showers, bath tubs and most cases their own electrical supply as they are surrounded by true "wilderness". There are no roads, utilities or electrical lines to their ranches. Often they do a booming business and you have to make reservations over a year in advance if you want to use their services in the peak seasons.

[Rich Riddle]

Val,

That story made me laugh and proves quite humorous. You are correct about an industry that feeds off of those folks. My friend has "food" that comes in a 5 gallon bucket that supposedly will feed a human for six months. It's shelf life is advertised as a quarter century. He won't get in trouble for not paying taxes because he never earns above the minimal threshold; in some years less than five hundred dollars. You might be onto something about wanting to basically be lazy for some of the people like my friend; if not, unorganized seems a common characteristic. Others really doing it work very hard, like farming on steroids. Since you folks started writing and offered a few terms to research, there is a plethora of information on this phenomena. Who knew such a large segment of people do this? Thanks to everyone for providing valuable information.

[David Weaver]

Rich, perhaps more interesting is that the internet presence of most of the preppers seems to be disproportionate compared to the actual numbers. For folks that might want to be considered anonymous in a collapse (as they put it) they leave a very large digital footprint sharing every detail about what they're doing to prepare.

I've seen the buckets before, online only, though. If you watch anything on youtube about solar energy or gardening, sooner or later it decides that you should see prepper videos. They're interesting to watch for a little bit, they sort of give you that "wait, how did I end up watching this video?" feeling.

[Larry Edgerton]

All those who "live off the grid" aren't necessarily mentally ill, lazy or some small group of strange introverts.

There are a several ranches in Idaho that are only accessible by hiking, horseback, airplane or boats. They provide lodging and guide services to those who want a wilderness photography trip, fishing or hunting. They have water supplies, flush toilets, showers, bath tubs and most cases their own electrical supply as they are surrounded by true "wilderness". There are no roads, utilities or electrical lines to their ranches. Often they do a booming business and you have to make reservations over a year in advance if you want to use their services in the peak seasons.

What he said. Also one thing to consider as you lump all of these people into useless oxygen thieves is that publicly announcing what you have is counterproductive to the true intent. I'm sure many of you know people that are prepared for some hard times but choose not to advertise this, for obvious reasons.

Larry

[Brian Elfert]

Are you really "off grid" if you have all the amenities of "on grid" living? People want to experience nature at a ranch or lodge with no power, but they want all the luxuries of a 5 star hotel once they get back from nature.

[David Weaver]

but choose not to advertise this, for obvious reasons.

Larry

That would seem the reasonable track if you really were preparing for such an event. Most of the rest of the youtubing and all of that of "preppers" and survivalists seems a lot more like escapism than pragmatism. And that's fine, the pragmatic folks end up looking intelligent by what they don't do or say, instead.

I'm always surprised by the videos where someone has a knife that they've gotten, and they're doing some sort of survivalist type thing, and they say they "need a knife made of CPM 3V" because carbon steel isn't tough enough to cut brush or use as an emergency axe, etc, and they proceed to attempt to maul a tree and immediately are out of breath without getting through it. Usually the person doing the talking is as pasty white and out of shape as me. I find those to be some of the more humorous videos, and less offputting. I doubt the people making them intend for them to be humorous, though.

Just think, before the internet, we weren't exposed to so much of this stuff unless someone was local to us (and I suppose we could consider ourselves POTP (part of the problem) because we talk about things that other folks might find pointless).

[Erik Loza]

This reminds me of a conversation on another forum. The topic was "Why not live in your car?". The OP's logic was that if you had a something like an SUV, you could sleep in it. For bathing, you could shower at the gym. For mail, there was a post office box and you if you had mobile devices, you could stay connected to the world. The whole concept sounded off at first but as I thought about it, his thinking made sense in a certain perspective until someone posted the question, "Where are you going to take your date after dinner?". A lot of this off-the-grid type stuff could work (especially for young, single guys) but the would the marginalization you would incurr be worth it?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Mel Fulks]

Some states will let you sleep in your car on the road shoulder. Illegal in other states and police will wake you up and tell you to drive on. Info should be in the tourist brochures !

[John Sanford]

Rich,

It is unusual to take 'the simple life' to that extent, but not extraordinary. The "beating the system" and preparing for the apocalypse aspects may simply be rationales he offers for not interacting a lot with the rest of society, or it could be his real motivations.

************************************
Regarding "living off the grid", strictly speaking it merely means that one is not connected to the utilities (and increasingly, communications) grid. It doesn't mean that you don't have electricity, merely that you generate your own in some fashion AND are not connected to the grid. Many folks generate their own while remaining connected, either because they don't generate enough, they want backup, or they sell electricity to the grid. Ditto for water and sewer. Does having a septic tank mean "you're off the grid"? Well, it means you're off the sewer grid. Nor does it mean that you don't participate in the modern economy, don't socialize, etc.

Now, many people will take it further. They may forgo any energy sources that are outside of their control. So, hydro/geo/wind/solar on their own land are good, but grid/generators not so much. Wood/coal are the primary fire sources, although some will consider oil/gasoline/diesel/natural gas/propane as acceptable for the short term. Food, a combination of stockpiles and grow/catch/trade. They may farm, or at least have a vegetable garden. They may farm using a tractor, and/or draft animals. They may eliminate modern communications tech. They may be hermits. They may homeschool. Others "live off the grid" while commuting to work in the city, dropping their kids off at school on the way and picking up a movie at Redbox on the way home.

The motivations for going off the grid are almost as numerous as the degrees of off the grid one can go. One motivation that's gotten little mention is an awful lot like what motivates many people here to work wood. Metaphorically speaking, living off the grid is a "hand made" life, not one made in a factory. The virtues of simplicity, self-reliance, lower cost, authenticity, personal design, and by gosh, can I do it? (note that realizing these virtues can be as elusive in living off the grid as in woodworking.)

So remember, as you're buffing out the last section of the new dining room table that you hand crafted alone in your shop, using wood felled by an artisanal lumberjack, you've gone off the furniture making grid. When you stand back to admire your handiwork, as the notions for the next project swirl about in your mind, ask yourself: "Am I crazy?"

[Rick Potter]

About that "pot to pee in". Just in case someone here has never seen one, it was standard fare to keep a lidded ceramic pot under the bed back in the good old days. Wealthier people had the pot in a chair with a lift up lid.

My great grandfather was a big shot with the Cleveland Trust Bank. He lived in the same house in downtown Cleveland till he died at 96 around 1955. A few years earlier he converted a closet to a toilet room for his old maid daughter, Aunt Daisy. He never used it, continuing to use the outhouse in the back yard till the day he died. In his case, I doubt the 'grid' had anything to do with it.

I have to admit that I just recently had a new outhouse built at my desert cabin. Someone used the old one for target practice. I haven't seen it yet, but I will be there next week. The new one has electric lights, and will use a camping type porta potty.

One bad thing about living in SoCal is that it is mostly reclaimed desert. In case of some cataclysmic disaster, we are basically SOL. No water to grow anything, no game to hunt, pretty hard to live off the land, and way to many people to try it.

Rick Potter

[Mel Fulks]

Pots were often kept in sideboards for use of men after dinner. In fact they had urinals in the shape of classical columns
etc that stayed in public rooms. I always thought they were just for men until I saw a notation in the famous Pepys diary about his return to his home
and in going through his dining room surprises a lady friend "doing something upon the pot".

[Brian Elfert]

Some states will let you sleep in your car on the road shoulder. Illegal in other states and police will wake you up and tell you to drive on. Info should be in the tourist brochures !

The stretch of I-80 through the Salt Flats in Utah has huge road signs every so often telling drowsy drivers to pull over. I-80 there is straight for so many miles that drivers start to nod off from lack of any real driving to do.

Back on topic, many people think of "off grid" living as living with minimal or no power and no flush toilets somewhere isolated. I guess you could have solar or a generator out in the middle of nowhere with a well and septic and still have all the comforts of a modern home. TV and Internet can both be delivered via satellite dish just about anywhere.

[Rich Riddle]

"Where are you going to take your date after dinner?". A lot of this off-the-grid type stuff could work (especially for young, single guys) but the would the marginalization you would incurr be worth it?

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

At my age, where to take a date after dinner would matter little in the scheme of things. The real issue is where would I keep all the Minimax and other woodworking tools? That's the deal breaker for many of us.

[Kev Williams]

This reminds me of a conversation on another forum. The topic was "Why not live in your car?".

There's a whole bunch of old people (some not so old too!) that do this all the time. They call themselves "full-timers". And their "cars" would be, of course, motorhomes!

I'm hoping to be one someday-- soon! We already have the "car"...

[Ryan Mooney]

ask yourself: "Am I crazy?"

The answer is indubitably yes. I'm unsure that the correlation with the current conversation is strong enough to be definitive, but I'm not sure it isn't either.

At my age, where to take a date after dinner would matter little in the scheme of things.

Most days I'm lucky to be awake after dinner so the question is likely moot. The obvious answer in the case of folks in different circumstances would be back to her place (and if she's also livin inavandownbytheriver I guess it was meant to be).

Having lived in both cases there are times when either is attractive. When I'm on my Nth useless meeting of the day (one is really to many), heading along behind a walking plow starts to look pretty good. On the other hand I can certainly recall when after a day behind a plow just about anything else looked pretty good (this is one example of of course many).