wireless printer server for trotec?

[Ross Moshinsky]

Not sure how that's going to work since the trotec job control is what runs the laser. Without the computer with job control on it plugged into the laser, it's not going work.

How is that not what I wrote?

Trotec <-USB-> Print Server PC <-Wireless- > Router < -Wireless- > Computer

Send the job over to the print server and then jump onto the print server either physically or remotely to run the job.

It's a pretty simple setup that has worked for many companies for many years.

[Scott Shepherd]

How is that not what I wrote?

Trotec <-USB-> Print Server PC <-Wireless- > Router < -Wireless- > Computer

Send the job over to the print server and then jump onto the print server either physically or remotely to run the job.

It's a pretty simple setup that has worked for many companies for many years.

It doesn't work because you can't break the active link from the Trotec to the Computer. Don't you think if it worked, there would be loads of people doing it?

[David Somers]

Ross,

My apology. When I scanned over your note I saw the words Print Server and my brain thought PRINT SERVER, as in a network level print server. You were basically saying what I spent wayyyyy more words describing; a computer with attached laser that you access remotely across your wireless network. <grin> Sorry.

[David Somers]

Scott,

I don't think what Ross and I were describing would break that link you described. You would still have a computer with the JCL program on it, attached directly to your Trotec. If you wanted, you could go out into the shop and sit down and run it just like you run your systems.

But, you also have the option to take that computer over remotely. It is as if you were sitting in front of it, but you are really doing it from that machine in the house. That local machine, attached direct to the Trotec, is doing all the work and talking directly to the Trotec. but the keyboard and mouse and screen you are using is really in another room on a second computer.

For example. I have a large network server room here. I can walk into that room and sit down at any server and work on it directly. The room is quite loud however, and quite cool. (though I admit to loving the cold air myself). More typically though I will use this Remote Desktop Protocol of Microsoft's, included in XP and Vista and Win7 and Win 8 by the way, and sit at my desk and tell it to take over a server in that room. I now have a window open on my office PC that is directly controlling the server in the other room as if I were sitting right there. I can copy files from my machine to the server, run programs on the server as if I were sitting right in front of it, etc. Pretty handy.

It is quite likely that Trotec tech support has done something similar with you when you need help from them. They may have you go to a particular web site, like Cisco for example, and through that site and with your permission take over your computer from their end and control the JCL as if they were sitting right there with you.

This was what Ross and I were suggesting.

Of course, you still have the concern of firing up a laser job without actually being there with the 4 inch firehose aimed at the device. But that is another discussion. <grin>

My apologies too for spelling this out pretty basically. I was trying to write more to others interested in this thread who aren't very familiar with the terms and capabilities mentioned. I also tend to blather a lot, not that any one would notice! <grin>

Dave

[Ross Moshinsky]

It doesn't work because you can't break the active link from the Trotec to the Computer. Don't you think if it worked, there would be loads of people doing it?

I must be missing something because I don't possibly see how anything I'm even remotely suggesting is going to break any link.

[Kev Williams]

Ross's diagram is pretty much exactly what I was talking about, that's how I'm hooked up. Your Trotec can and will work just like any other shared device. You just set up the Trotec as a shared printer on whichever computer(s) you want to run it from.

Do your work, when you're ready to send the job, you just pic the Trotec as the printer.

[David Somers]

Kev,

You have the right idea, but in the case of the Trotec JCL I think you have an approach that would cause a problem, as Scott (Steve) said.

The key is that the Trotec isn't a printer and isn't treated as a printer by the JCL system.

Rather than thinking of the JCL as a kind of printer driver, think of it instead as if it were a realllllllllly fancy and full featured LCD system for the Trotec. And instead of using the LCD panel on the Trotec to control it you are using your monitor and keyboard and mouse to control it. The cable is the USB cable connecting them.

What you want to do in this case is take over that computer remotely. Use another computer on the network, mostly inexpensively using Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol to do it, and sit at that second computer controlling the first computer as if you were right there with it. You aren't sharing it like you would a printer. You are actually taking the computer over so that your second computer's monitor, keyboard and mouse have become the first computer's monitor keyboard and mouse. You can then run the JCL program as if you were sitting at that first computer directly in front of it. Additionally, you can use this same mechanism to copy files back and forth between the two computers. (or other mechanisms if you prefer...there are a couple of ways) So if you have a file on the second computer that you had just finished and you want to have the Trotec run it you would copy the file to the first computer and remote control the first computer to tell the JCL to process the job. The first computer is doing all the work, talking directly to the Trotec through the JCL. All you are doing is using your second machines monitor keyboard and mouse to run the first computer from distance.

Sorry...I don't mean to be picky about terms. But if you hunt for help on Google or Microsoft Knowledge Base on the terms you were using you are going to get very different results that won't apply.

Does that help?

You are on the right track though. Just think Remote Control, not sharing or printer sharing.

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Ross's diagram is pretty much exactly what I was talking about, that's how I'm hooked up. Your Trotec can and will work just like any other shared device. You just set up the Trotec as a shared printer on whichever computer(s) you want to run it from.

Do your work, when you're ready to send the job, you just pic the Trotec as the printer.

It doesn't work like that. You guys are thinking about something completely different. When the computer MUST be plugged into the laser because it's actually controlling the laser while it's running, it has to be plugged in, not run wirelessly over a network. Doesn't work like that. I've seen the question asked for 6 years on the Universal and it's not be one instance of it working yet, and I've not seen 1 person make it happen on a Trotec either.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Ross's diagram is pretty much exactly what I was talking about, that's how I'm hooked up. Your Trotec can and will work just like any other shared device. You just set up the Trotec as a shared printer on whichever computer(s) you want to run it from.

Do your work, when you're ready to send the job, you just pic the Trotec as the printer.

Well it's not exactly the same. A Trotec is more like a CNC machine or printer that needs to be ripped first. Essentially what you'd be doing is sending over a file to the "print server" and then you have to run it through the job control software to do the rest. That can be done remotely or physically. You need a PC because you need to run the job control.

It's no different than if you had 1 CNC running Mach3 and 3 design computers. You could create gcode file using any of those 3 design computers but at the end of the day, only one computer, the one hooked up directly to the machine, can actually run the job.

[Scott Shepherd]

Rather than thinking of the JCL as a kind of printer driver, think of it instead as if it were a realllllllllly fancy and full featured LCD system for the Trotec.

Think of it bigger than that, think of it as the motherboard for the laser. You can't remove the motherboard and make it remote. That also keeps old machines current as well because you don't end up with old hardware on the boards that can't be updated. The software running our 6 year old Universal is the same software that comes with a brand new one. Same features, same everything.

[David Somers]

I do understand what you are saying Scott. Computer A, plugged directly to the Trotec, is physically running the Trotec. Computer A's processor chip is dealing with the file the Trotec is going to burn. The processor in Computer A is going talk back and forth with the Trotec telling it exactly what to do with each portion of the file. It is the brains of the Trotec. Unplug it while the job is running and the Trotec will sigh and stop and that's it.

But........Computer A is running Windows. The JCL is a program running within Windows. (or have I completely muffed that?) The JCL may be the brains of the Trotec but the JCL is still a piece of software running within Windows. And Windows can be remote controlled. The entire machine can be remote controlled. It isnt a matter of the JCL being somewhere else. It is still on computer A using the processor of computer A. It is still running in the same Windows Environment of computer A. It is still hardwired to the Trotec connected to computer A. But computer A and its Windows environment can be controlled from afar. Its local keyboard mouse and monitor go dead and the remote keyboard monitor and mouse out in kalamazoo or wherever are taking their place.

If you and I knew each other better I would offer to show you this, but I would not recommend your allowing me to do that. This is your business, your computer, your system that you rely on for a living and I would not be that free with it with someone you know only from this forum.

But....if you are talking to Trotec tech support sometime soon ask them if they could take your computer over remotely to provide tech support. And if they do it could they actually operate the JCL and look at its settings? Change its settings? Copy a file from their computer to yours and cause the JCL to run that job on the Trotec? If they can, then you can do that as well from another computer. It is a fairly simple Windows function. Windows happens to provide a tool for this with their Remote Desktop Protocol, and there are other third party systems that can do this as well.



Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Dave, if it were possible, it would be being done. There is a piece of the puzzle some are missing.

[David Somers]

Well, even if I had a Trotec in hand Scott you would still be far more knowledgeable than me on it. You do have me really curious now how JCL is actually working. It must be completely outside the normal operating parameters of Windows for this not to work. Not that companies don't do it, you just see it very infrequently.

Dave

[Kev Williams]

I was thinking about stacking jobs into the Trotec's memory from the remote, not running the machine.

However, there is a very simple way to run the machine from his other computer (and I should've thought of it first)--

Connect to the Trotec "host" computer via Remote Desktop with the "slave" computer.

[David Somers]

So....you got me curious enough to go look Scott.

Trotec is using a product called TeamViewer to remotely control your computer if you ask for it or if the tech agent thinks that is the more expedient way to resolve the problem. It is the equivalent of Microsoft Remote Desktop and its variants, Cisco Webex as used to do remote tech support by various companies like Dell, Gotomypc, etc. They all do the same thing. Take over the keyboard, mouse and monitor of the target computer. In the case of tech support Trotec would take over the computer you have connected to your Trotec and running the JCL. (of course, we are assuming that computer is internet accessible) It is just like having them sitting right in your shop in front of your computer, except they are sitting out in Canton, MI or where ever their tech call center is located.

I am familiar with TeamViewer and if it works, so will Webex or Windows Remote Desktop or Gotomypc or other programs like them.

I think the reason you aren't seeing it done is that for the average user or business this is not something they are exposed to other than to have it done to them by tech support. It isn't thought of as a solution to this type of problem on your local business network or even your home network beyond the tech support options if offers. But it certainly could be.

For example, at Hawaii Volcanoes NP we had a bunch of seismic and air quality monitors that were too far from the US Geologic Survey's network to be connected to them directly. So we allowed them to connect it to our system which was within range. We had a computer dedicated to this that polled and collected data from these sensors. Whenever they wanted, USGS could remotely take over the computer and change the way individual sensors operated, cause data to be sent to USGS systems, update the firmware of the sensors, and generally control each device through its software. It wasn't a sharing like you would do with printers or files, and it wasn't a client server operation, it was simply a remote control operation using Windows Remote Desktop.

So.....this does appear to be possible with the JCL and Trotec.

If you are interested in something like that I would be happy to help you Scott. Someone local who deals with networks or who offers remote support to you is going to be familiar with this though and could certainly help you use it for this purpose if it would help you.

One way you might be able to make use of it in your business might be to help operators who are having problems with some process and you are not on site to help. Or maybe you are in your office and you hurt your leg or back and hobbling out to the shop floor one more time is just not happening. If you can get to the internet, then you will be able to use something like Remote Desktop to take over the computer attached to the device they are having issues with and see what they are doing. That might be enough for you to quickly help them without having to drive back to the office. And you don't have to spend time trying envision what their screen looks like and guide them. You can see exactly what their screen is, and even take it over if needed to show them where the problem is.

I hope this helps! It is a cool tool that can do more for you than just tech support. And as I said, if Trotec is using the package called Teamviewer other similar tools will operate as well.

Dave