Current Table Saws any safer than older table saws?

[Charles Li]

I'm toying with the idea of buying a table saw (my first one) and have been looking at old used ones. Your money seems like it can go very far in the used market. However, many of these saws are pretty old and don't have riving knives and possibly other safety features. I'm looking in the $500 range. In terms of pure safety (not performance) and of course proper usage, are newer saws any safer? Short of push sticks, it doesn't seem like there's an aftermarket for safety features to add to an old saw. You're committed to the original design. If I go with a current model I certainly lose performance per dollar but do I gain in safety? One used example is a Makita 2708. Thanks for any insight.

[John Sanford]

Essentially, there are only two meaningful safety features on newer table saws versus older ones. Riving knives and the Sawstop brake. While I'm sure you can find REALLY old table saws that don't have any sort of blade guard, open motors that catch fire from dust, and other such Victorian era features, the truth is pretty much all of the contractor and cabinet saws made since WW2 (and perhaps even WW1) have enclosed motors and, for the last 30 years or so, came with a blade guard. Whether a used saw still has a blade guard, now that's a fine question.

Now, a used saw, due to use/abuse, may have other issues that make it more unsafe, such as frayed power cords, lose connections, bad bearings, cracked bits, etc, but these aren't design issues. A table saw, or any circular saw, is a fundamentally unsafe tool unless one is talking about the massive industrial contraptions that cost 6 figures or more. So what we do is combine smart working methods with improved safety features to lower the risk.

Lower, not eliminate. Because there's still a passel of very sharp, hard teeth spinning at thousands of RPM, just waiting to taste some soft flesh. The safest tablesaw economically practical for the small shop isn't being built yet, because for whatever reason the flesh sensing/blade braking capability has not been married up to European sliders.

[Jim Andrew]

I bought a sliding table saw, one of the reasons was safety. I talked to some friends who have a SCMi sliding table saw in a production shop, they said the main reason they bought it was the safety factor. They showed me a piece that had become caught due to a small scrap being stuck between the blade and the insert, and had made the next piece catch and was thrown out the back of the saw. No danger to the operator as he was standing to the left of the table. It is just a safer design than the old style American table saw. Although more expensive than your 500$. Grizzly has a sliding model suited for the home shop. Mine is a Hammer, bought it while they had their winter sale. Last I checked, you could still get the sale price.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I'll add that with a contractor or cabinet saw there is usually a throat plate which can be replaced with a shop-made or purchased one that has a "splitter" aft of the blade at full height. This serves the same function as a ring knife. The throat plate is replaced with one lacking a splitter for tilt-arbor cuts. Tilted cuts are not that common in many styles of work anyway and you may find a miter saw both faster to set up and more convenient most of the time for angled cuts.

Some older industrial saws can be fitted with a ring knife because the arbor actually travels straight up and down. These saws tend to be pretty heavy though. There are riving knife retrofits. One is called the "bolt on riving knife" and as far as I know it works with only some specific older saws.

I'm a slider user as well. They are not often easy to find for less than a couple grand on the used market though so such a saw may be more than you want to commit to.

[Terry Beadle]

I agree with Mr. Sanford that a table saw with a riving knife is safer than any saw with out one. The Sawstop is new, expensive, and safer than most modern and "old" saws.
That being said, there are several things you can do in the use of an old saw that will make it very safe. Nothing is totally safe but being aware, sober, and think before you act will save a lot of finger cuts or throw backs.

One good safety measure is a Gripper but it cost a bit. A good long push stick with a handle to the rear and a leading blade edge will go a long way in keeping one out of trouble.
Using friction sticks on the side and upper surfaces of a work piece is worth the extra minute or two that they take to set up. Keep them handy with suitable clamps and or magnetic bases and you will have almost eliminated 96% of the danger.
Make a cutting sled. There are many designs on the web with demo's on youtube. For example : A Steve Ramsey miter sled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLeMVAkSIY

As for old iron versus new, most of the new ones have better production quality control but you have to buy good quality. Buying new junk is still junk. Don't expect a $75 craigs list bargain to cut like a $1000 Grizzly 1023.

The Makita saw you mention is a pretty good saw but it's on the cheap side and has had some issues reported related to wear and tear. A Delta contractor grade table saw is a good starter for a table saw. I recommend a lower cost cabinet saw with a decent fence. Used they go from $650 to $850 depending on age, included items in the sale, and rust/maintenance quality.

Most advice is buy the best you can afford and it will last you and perform better for best results.

This opinion is free...priced right..and with a wish that you are happy, safe and successful !
Enjoy the savings.

[David Kumm]

You can make a substitute riving knife or splitter that will suffice from a safety standpoint if not be as elegant as new. I would look for a used saw with a good fence. A crappy fence that doesn't stay in alignment makes the saw more dangerous than an add on riving knife IMO. Dave

[Charles Li]

Sawstop and Grizzly well beyond my price point. I've read around where some people don't even consider a saw without a riving knife (isn't it required in Europe?). I don't know how comfortable I'd feel about crafting my own riving knife or rigging one vs getting a saw w/ one built in. I guess I find the lack of options pretty odd. I'm new to this and this is my outside perspective. Terry, can you give more details about tools with magnetic bases for safety? Given my budget it would be something like a Bosch 4100-09 vs something much older but after market fence. It seems like a fence is as important (if not more) than the rest of a TS itself and can help make things safer. I've also seen a Delta 36-441B but don't know much about it. Thanks for all the input. Definitely helps.

[David Kumm]

If you find a good saw without a riving look at MJ splitter. The old Delta or rockwell 9" contractors saws were very well built and go pretty cheap. the little bosch is a decent saw and you can always clamp a level to the fence to add a little length when ripping long stock. Needs a thin kerf blade of quality though. You can spend 50-100 pretty quickly to get a good blade. Factor that in. Dave

[Mikail Khan]

Bosch 4100 with gravity rise stand is $569 from amazon. Has a riving knife. Leave the guard in place. I used the older 4000 model for years. My father uses it now.

Link


MK

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I used a Delta, then a Jet for years, neither had a shield or riving knife, and I never even came close to hurting myself. If you trust yourself to be the smartest tool in your shop, you can prevent stupid accidents. I'm not advocating skipping the safety devices, just saying that a careful person is in no imminent danger without them.

Another riving knife type safety device that I particularly like is the throat plate mounted splitter. Just a kerf size piece of something installed in the plate, sticking up a little. Easy to swap the plate out when you want to do a non through cut.

[Charles Li]

I just saw that MJ splitter along with their gripper. It looks like a good system you can use on any saw. I have no experience, but that gripper seems to be one of the best ways to control narrow cuts. You're not kidding these accessories are gonna add up lol.

[scott spencer]

Charles - Are you looking for a full size stationary saw or a portable? I ask because a full size generally represents better value, more upgrade potential, and tend to be safer by way of having more mass, much better stability, and considerably more operating space in front of the blade. I would only look into a portable if you need to stow it on a shelf or move it from jobsite to jobsite.

[HANK METZ]

I bought a sliding table saw, one of the reasons was safety. I talked to some friends who have a SCMi sliding table saw in a production shop, they said the main reason they bought it was the safety factor. They showed me a piece that had become caught due to a small scrap being stuck between the blade and the insert, and had made the next piece catch and was thrown out the back of the saw. ...

This mishap falls into the "be aware at all times" category of safe operation. No doubt a zero clearance throat plate would have made a difference, so as others have stated the best safety device is the one permanently installed between your ears.

[Ole Anderson]

Short answer, YES simply due to the better designs of blade guards and the requirement now for riving knives. As for push sticks, don't use them. Use something like shown below in lieu of a push stick (easily made): You want a device that holds the work down to the table, not just push at the rear edge. By the way, a splitter sure helps, but is a poor substitute for a proper riving knife. That being said I have an older G1023 without a riving knife, but with the support for my SharkGuard left in place, is a close second.

[Frank Drew]

Adding a bit on to what David said about table saw fences, to me one of the best safety features of top quality equipment, either old or new, is their rock-solid reliability/predictability. In the same way that a really sharp kitchen knife is safer than a dull one.

And, echoing Hank and others, I think it's fair to say that most shop accidents happen when the operator's attention wanders, for whatever reason. So if you feel yourself not right there with whatever you're doing, take a break, or call it a day.