"Don't be afraid of ruining your saw"

[Bruce Mack]

Tom Lie-Nielsen in his video, Saw III, says this as he encourages his viewers to learn sharpening. With the excellent Vintage Saw treatise and many articles and videos gleaned from magazines and the internet I have been able to repurpose a 16 tpi Veritas crosscut saw as a dovetail saw. This is no big deal to the experienced, but I had difficulty with the small teeth and my bad technique. Now after resetting, jointing, and refiling the teeth, I have a good saw and the pleasure of making it happen. If I had bought a really good saw costing north of $200 I doubt I would have submitted it to my remedial filing, instead returning it to the maker. The packing, the time lost in turn around, the cost, and the dependency would have been irksome.
The question arises whether owners of these high grade saws do the touch ups themselves? I'm guessing they don't as it would be hard to accept a performance loss or the fear of such. Your opinions, experience?

[Moses Yoder]

I will probably get slaughtered for saying this but if you can file a saw there is no reason to spend $200 on a saw. The rare exception would be the person who can both afford a very nice saw and wants to sharpen it his/her self for the experience. I would guess this to be the rare person. The majority would either learn to file it themselves because they are obligated to other priorities and think $200 is a lot of money or they would have the money for a nice saw and pay someone to sharpen it for them.

[Bruce Mack]

I agree with you. Acquired hand skills take time and repetition. I've always been tempted to "buy" the skill but lately am happier when the tool has a little of me in it.

[Jim Matthews]

I think you're half right, MY...

The reason boutique saws are so popular is that they come professionally sharpened.
Old hacks like me can't really see teeth this small - anything less than 12 tpi and I'm guessing about the degree of set
(or if I set three teeth in a row to the same side).

I'm only just now competent at larger tooth sizes to cut straight and reasonably fast.
The really fine stuff? I'm guessing, half the time.


I assert that this is why Japanese saws became so popular in the 1990's - they were sharp right out of the box.

[Tom McMahon]

I believe sharpening saws is a necessary skill just like sharpening chisels or planes. Unless you live next door to a professional saw sharpener you need to be able to do it yourself or quit working every time you saw is dull. If you are afraid to sharpen your saw go buy a cheap saw at an antique store and learn on it.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

An advantage of sharpening saws often is that you really learn to notice the difference between a dull saw and a sharp one. If you sharpen them infrequently, you get used to the gradual loss of sharpness.

[Tom M King]

I use dental loupes to see well while filing really small teeth. I don't wear glasses, but by the time saw teeth number past 16, the extra help makes it easier. Cheap magnifiers give me a headache. 35 dollar saw and 60 dollar loupes still make a reasonably priced good user. I need to dull enough files to send off to be sharpened anyway.

No 100 dollar saws here.

Most new golf drivers are bought by people who can't hit a ball past 250.

[David Weaver]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I've gotten exposed at events to some mini tour guys and other local pros, and they are equipment fanatics when it comes to driving, fairway woods, long irons/hybrids, wedges and putters (but the short irons are left to classic technology). I was working at a driving range when I was in college and the local pro there had been playing the philadelphia section, and I remember him talking about going through something like a couple of hundred shafts before they had a good matching set for his irons (I'm sure there's better technology for that now), and shortly after that, he qualified for the US senior open, and a rep from Top Flite (does that even still exist?) showed up and he got new irons and a gross of balls that day. Totally wasting his prized shaft selection from several months prior.

And he missed the cut.

The mini tour and serious amateurs around here are way over the top in how they dress, too. I don't remember that quite so much when I played more (when I was still in school) - there were a couple of very wealthy kids who wore specific stuff, but now when I have played in any event, it's uniform that guys with 25 handicaps are dressed with white belts and pants or shorts that are to be worn only on the golf course. But the problem is still the indian, and not the arrow, so to speak.

But for tools I agree. There are three levels of tools to me.
* tools that don't do a job well
* tools that do a job as well as it needs to be done time-wise and neatness wise
* tools that do a job well, fast, and that make the user feel nice while they're using them

The only trouble with tools in the last category is that you can get into a place where you try to find an excuse to use or overuse tools, and they don't yield any better or faster results than tools in bullet point two (which in saws is pretty much any decent vintage saw, let alone the special vintage saws).

I never found much value in chasing the ads around trying to find the newest clubs, and I'm a pretty bad golfer, but I have seen folks with money and dreams of having one perfect hole (instead of an enjoyable round) who spend their money on the clubs and don't want to be bothered with the mechanics of the actual game.

The tools in bullet point 3 attempt to convince users that there are no hard moves. Just like golf has turned into a drive and a wedge game with ballooning ball fight, when it was so much more attractive when it was deader balls with long iron and fairway wood shots on the long par 4s, and a low ball flight.

[george wilson]

Get some 4X drugstore reading glasses,if your eyes are about the same,you can get away with them. I do get tired from wearing them if I go 2 or 3 hours with them on. I like half glasses because I can look over them when looking at distance,and save some energy. I have sharpened my Blitz backsaw,which has over 32 teeth per inch(a guess). Getting glasses that you can see the work through in sufficient magnification is a good part of accomplishing some work.

4X are hard to find. 3.75 are usually the strongest available in most drug stores,but there's 1 store that sells them in 4X. No doubt you could find them on line. I've paid $18.00 several years ago. Don't buy too cheap glasses. Sometimes their lenses don't even match. Like Ace,who sells $3.00 glasses.

[Derek Cohen]

I wear 1.5x magnifiers for reading and sharpen my saws with the aid of a 2.0x Magni-Focuser from LN ...



It is not a sound idea to generalise about those who sharpen and those who do not. I am sure that many do not sharpen because, until a few years ago, this was considered a skill for the professional. A bit like Roger Bannister breaking the 4 minute barrier for the mile. After he did this it became psychologically possible for others to emulate his feat (or should that be feet? ).

I have several "expensive" backsaws, as well as a few I have made, and the responsibility to keep them working well is mine. No different from sharpening my chisels or plane blades. Is there a sharpening service for the latter Good tools are not necessarily owned by those that just collect them. Some are owned by those that enjoy using them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Warren Mickley]

I don't remember sharpening my first back saw, but it was 40 years ago when I sharpened my first saw, an 8 point saw. I would recommend likewise learning on a 6-10 point saws rather than a fine tooth saw. For the price of sending away one saw for sharpening, you can buy some dull junkers and gain some experience and technique before working on a dovetail saw. If you are serious about using handsaws, you will want to learn to sharpen your saws. Some professional sharpener might do a better job than you, but in the long run it is not worth the inconvenience.

[Judson Green]

Other than requiring glasses at all times my eye sight is pretty good, but for saws with higher PPI count I use these clip-ons. Got em local at a craft store, couldn't find em at a drug store.

And I agree don't be afraid to mess up your saw. Been there, done it, later fixed it, only wiser having the experience.

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One of my biggest personal breakthroughs regarding saws was not in sharping but rather convincing myself that this saw is wrong.

I was gifted a backsaw many years ago by a good friend whom is an accomplish woodworker, given to me "ready to go". Tried it out a number of times and though it would cut fine, the kerf was all over the place. I chalked this up to my inexperience as I was in my early years of hand tooling, mostly an electronic woodworker. So the saw never really got any use, setting in a drawer for years. Well only about a year ago did I muster up the courage try and fix it (hammered the set out and resharpened, set). The saw cuts like a dream now. But it was only after I'd read up on the subject did I convince myself that I could do better than the scatter gun set that this saw received. And rather than set in the drawer for another year, better to try fixing. Besides I could always put it back in the drawer.

[David Weaver]

It is not a sound idea to generalise about those who sharpen and those who do not.

You mean like those who sharpen their own saws wear white hats and those who don't wear black hats?

[Kim Malmberg]

I think Derek put it very well. Would we even consider sending our chisels or plane irons for sharpening? Although it isn't quite the same, because saw teeth have much smaller edges than most chisels, I do think it is important to take the hype out of saw filing.
My eyes have also become weaker and nowadays I have to wear glasses and a magnifying lamp for all my sharpening. I'm not very keen on working with anything smaller than 13 PPI. But it is doable.
Saw filing can be difficult, but so can sharpening a gouge. I'm my opinion the better the tooth shape on any saw the easier it is to sharpen. So a brand new saw with slightly dull teeth is a walk in the park because you have already well formed teeth to trace.
I am not an expert on saw filing buy most of the saws I have treated have been saws bought in my own country where saw filing skills were very poor. So I had to joint, reshape, joint again and reshape before I would get anything resembling an even toothline. Which is why I am thrilled every time I manage to buy a saw from the UK or US, because most of the time you will at least have a sound tooth shape to work on.

[Jim Koepke]

Got em local at a craft store

Michael's carries clip-on magnifiers in the needle point section.

The worst thing that can happen filing your saw is you get the tooth line a little off and have to rejoint and refile your saw. It comes with learning and gaining experience. This is a good use for a flea market/yard sale find. When you get it right you will be surprised how good an old $2 saw can cut.

Recently I purchased saw parts from Ron Bontz. So far I have not made a handle for the full saw kit. I sharpened and set a replacement plate for a saw that is now a pleasure to use.

Yes, I advocate people taking a chance and learning how to file their saws.

jtk